When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
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It just seems a bit odd, for a company that expects you to drive all day long would put you in something priced at £15.6k and call that over budget. For that price even pre-reg you'd be lucky to get a Skoda Octavia Estate 1.0L Petrol/1.6TDI, and I am not saying it is a bad car, but not one I'd fancy spending all day long in doing many thousands of miles for per month.



I guess that depends on attitude of the company, one of the companies I contract gives the sales staff a budget up to £40k to source the vehicle of their choice, which they then buy out right, and believe it or not they don't drive anywhere near as much as you do. One of them has just moved from a 16 plate BMW 330D to a new Tesla Model 3 SR+, but again they are unlucky if they do 1000 miles per week. I guess for some it is a company perk, others see it as a necessity but with the new BIK rules for BEV's from April '20 the perk becomes even bigger as you end up with an increase in take home pay, and a nice car too.



E-Niro is one of those vehicles that if it was just a bit more efficient with the 64kWh battery pack it would pass that crucial 300-mile per charge in all conditions, but the charging curve is OK with them, 10-60% is only 30 mins on an HPC, which is ~140 miles. So easily useable on a day with <400 miles of driving, as you'd only need to ensure you were starting the day on 100%, and even a 10 min stop for a toilet break would get you ~15% battery charge, so if you did that two or three time during the day then you are sitting at 30-45% of the total range added or ~ 90-150 miles. Obviously you could be one of these people that never stops at all, and just motors on until you get to where you are going, so then you can ignore the last thing I said completely. :)

Yeah my mileage is very sporadic. Earlier in the year I did a 12 week stretch without leaving the office due to commitments at the time. I also spend a chunk of time overseas each year so my mileage only averages out to less than 25k/year. Ours is a small company and finances are tight (thankfully not as tight as they were a few years ago) so I thought the offer of 15k on a used car was fair at the time. I pushed for the extra few hundred because for the small amount extra it seemed good value for effectively a new car. For reference it is a Leon ST FR with plenty of options (many of which I probably wouldn't choose!) so it isn't too bad a place to be.

I'm not a martyr when it comes to driving. If I feel like I want or need a break I'll stop, I'm just happy doing 3+ hour stints behind the wheel. Equally if I'm given the choice of an overnight stop ending at 6pm or pressing on and spending a night in my own bed arriving at 10pm I'll opt for the latter. Again that is my choice though.

If it was possible practically and viable financially I probably would make some compromises to accommodate using an EV for work. Even if it meant adding on the odd 30 minute stop here and there to top it up.
 
Soldato
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The main issues with EVs and cornering is just the weight itself not where it’s located.

The Model 3 performance is faster than the BMW M3 round a track but only because of its acceleration/straight line speed. Round the corners it is much slower.

And you can only get one fast lap in before it needs to stop and cool down. Not many more before its flat. Not exactly a fun track day :p
 
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Soldato
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And you can only get one fast lap in before it needs to stop and cool down. Not many more before its flat. Not exactly a fun track day :p

That just isn't true though is it?

lots of people have shown you can happily do a 20 minute stint without any issues in a model 3 performance and that's what most people in petrol cars do on a track day as you start to lose concentration after that, i know i never wanted to do more than 20 mins at a time in all the track days i've done. Plus the engine/brakes/everything else will be getting hot so you'll probably want to come in anyway.
 
Soldato
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The main issues with EVs and cornering is just the weight itself not where it’s located.

The Model 3 performance is faster than the BMW M3 round a track but only because of its acceleration/straight line speed. Round the corners it is much slower.

That isn't much of an excuse though is it when you lose a race? Oh but my car was faster around the corners!
 
Soldato
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That just isn't true though is it?

lots of people have shown you can happily do a 20 minute stint without any issues in a model 3 performance and that's what most people in petrol cars do on a track day as you start to lose concentration after that, i know i never wanted to do more than 20 mins at a time in all the track days i've done. Plus the engine/brakes/everything else will be getting hot so you'll probably want to come in anyway.

Even if it was true, how much does it really matter? What percentage of cars sold will be used on a track 0.1%, 0.01%, 0.001% or even less?

Literally the people who actually care about using a car on a track are so irrelevant in their numbers they don't even need to be taken into consideration, track performance is there for willy waving and that is it, oh and to help in marketing showing completely irrelevant numbers to impress/lure people into buying.

You can push it even further, even car enthusiasts don't matter since they are the exception and not the norm, the majority just want a car that works and has the comfort, safety and features required at a certain price point. Much like OCUK when launched were irrelevant to the vast majority of personal computer buyers, they were happy with a machine from Tiny/Time/Dell etc. :)
 
Soldato
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That just isn't true though is it?

lots of people have shown you can happily do a 20 minute stint without any issues in a model 3 performance and that's what most people in petrol cars do on a track day as you start to lose concentration after that, i know i never wanted to do more than 20 mins at a time in all the track days i've done. Plus the engine/brakes/everything else will be getting hot so you'll probably want to come in anyway.

The model S struggled to do one lap of the Nurburgring without overheating.

Yea most people won't track it. But a lot of people like to launch cars at the lights, same issue, you can't keep using the performance repeatedly.
 
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Soldato
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in his defence, although model3 seems immune from multiple starts - S wasn't.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-31-hard-launches-video/
Last week, Porsche made headlines when the company allowed Fifth Gear and Fully Charged host Jonny Smith to take one of its Taycan Turbo pre-production vehicles for a launch mode repeatability test. Conducted on an empty airfield, the test involved the EV veteran launching the Taycan Turbo at max power 26 times with no power throttling. The exhibition was impressive, and it invoked just how much work Porsche has put into the Taycan and its development. The Taycan’s feat also brought comparisons to Tesla’s Model S P100D, which was quicker off the line with its 0-60 mph time of 2.4 seconds, but is prone to limiting its power after multiple max power launches.

I've not seen that fifth gear yet - plug - last nights with the green rs5 + karun chanduk was good, and the ferrari 80K options speccing

the earlier comment about those switching to ev's was due to intoxication with the torque, as opposed to handling, which seems to follow the American muscle car meme (1/4 mile launch's), so less interested in handling; I had not understood this USA preoccupation ... but living in the flatland of the fens now, there is an absence of mountainous or sinuous roads where handling can really be enjoyed.

The rear wheel drive id3 is going to add some handling interest in the mid market EV segment.
 
Caporegime
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There's a clear divide in this thread between people who actually have experience with living and using an electric car. And usually enjoy it and see how easy it is to do. And those who don't. It's easy to be cynical and sit on the sidelines making excuses, but fact of the matter is it's where things are headed. And people will either adopt the technology willingly or be dragged along kicking and screaming.

I've driven various electric cars for several years now, only using public charging the vast majority of the time. I've never once run out of battery and find them completely stress-free to drive and charge. I agree that public infrastructure needs improving before proper expansion of electric vehicles is possible and it's certainly better in some regions than others. The government's OLEV (Office for Low Emission Vehicles) has lots of funding set aside and is helping expansion. Some local councils mandate a certain number of charging points for new buildings with on-site parking and some have conversion targets for public parking spaces of a certain size.

That's just as blinkered a view as those of people like Nasher.

If you own an electric car right now you're an "innovator". It very much means you're a subsection of society that are either willing to compromise to test out a new technology, or it fits your lifestyle so well that it feels like it's better.

Not everyone has the same lifestyle and practices. Yes, there are some naysayers, but there are also a lot of people where an EV would be more impractical than an ICE. Claiming it's just a simple divide between people that have and have not completely ignores the nuances of why people have and have not.

It's basically the IOS/Android debate all over again.

There's still a lot more work needed (both charging and infrastructure and vehicles) before electric vehicles work for most/all people. Just as the original iPhone was a bit ****, but each iteration and update made it better and better, hitting more and more people's benchmarks for a phone they want.
 
Soldato
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It's basically the IOS/Android debate all over again.

It's more like the smartphone vs. feature phone argument TBH. ;)

If you take your comparison, some early adopters were willing to get on board with the original iPhone or various Android phone(s), and others were happy to stick with the long trusted Nokia that had a week of battery life, and made calls, and completed SMS. Why would they need more, why would they want worse battery life etc.
 
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