AIR vs AIO. 18c drop in temps

[gbgt2]

What Ross said, except Asetek are not as dependable as air and usually cost more .. so unless it's custom loop air (many times the cost of air) top tier air cooling has the beat performance to cost as well as best dependability of any cooling system on the market at this time.

Yes but they don't look as good, can interfere with other components, and are beaten in ultimate performance ..

 

[doyll]

Yes but they don't look as good, can interfere with other components, and are beaten in ultimate performance ..

True, air coolers can interfer with RAM and PCIe slots so we need to be sure to select a cooler that does not interfer. We hear some complaints about air cooler fans blocking RAM but honestly how often to most of use need access to our RAM and it's not that are to R&R a fan .. just unclip, set aside, do whatever to RAM and re-attach fan. Can you post links to 'ultimate performance' testing showing CLCs are better than air? Accurate tests showing CLCs out performing top tier air coolers with both using same temp air and same noise levels?

 

[gbgt2]

True, air coolers can interfer with RAM and PCIe slots so we need to be sure to select a cooler that does not interfer. We hear some complaints about air cooler fans blocking RAM but honestly how often to most of use need access to our RAM and it's not that are to R&R a fan .. just unclip, set aside, do whatever to RAM and re-attach fan. Can you post links to 'ultimate performance' testing showing CLCs are better than air? Accurate tests showing CLCs out performing top tier air coolers with both using same temp air and same noise levels?

Blocking RAM is an issue for LED RAM though. On performance you can pick pretty much any review that shows both with the same hardware, for example: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h150i_pro_review,12.html The D15 is pretty much the best air cooler as far as I know but @ 100% load it is beaten by a host of AIO to varying degrees. Note: I said in ultimate performance. Yes the D15 is very quiet.

 

[Ross Thomson]

The new arctic liquid freezer II coolers 250 & 280 cheaper than the D15 while the 360 is the same price.

240mm AIO quieter and cooler than a D15

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...id-freezer-ii-all-in-one-cpu-cooler-review/5/

280mm very quiet at full speed

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/arctic-liquid-freezer-ii-280-all-in-one-cpu-cooler,6376-2.html

 

[b00merang69]

Those small VRM/Mosfets fans are horrible noise wise same as any and the recent Asus coolers.

I would say performance to noise wise the Noctua will be better as 1500rpm the fans are not too loud as the review did say fans all full speed so pump/small whinny fan and 2 Rad fans.

 

[Ross Thomson]

Those small VRM/Mosfets fans are horrible noise wise same as any and the recent Asus coolers.

I would say performance to noise wise the Noctua will be better as 1500rpm the fans are not too loud as the review did say fans all full speed so pump/small whinny fan and 2 Rad fans.

you did see the noise results.

 

[b00merang69]

I skimped over it due to time 3am+ but not sure I take any reviews on a website as dubious.

 

[Robert896r1]

The new arctic liquid freezer II coolers 250 & 280 cheaper than the D15 while the 360 is the same price.

240mm AIO quieter and cooler than a D15

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...id-freezer-ii-all-in-one-cpu-cooler-review/5/

Thanks for sharing this. Good to see a 9900k being used. Since it's easy to copy their settings, I wanted to replicate their testing and share some more data points.

I ran their exact settings with AIDA cpu/fpu/cache for 15. At 10mins, I reset the hwinfo64 sensors so I'd have a clear idea of what an average load looks like over time.



So while there is the occasional spike, on general it's a relatively mild load. Keep in my I'm in a case next to a radiator so my ambient will be high when doing a like for like. The highlighted fields are the important ones to pay attention to. Overall, you'd mentioned about 150amps but you can see now that it's easy to spike upto that. I wouldn't consider Kitguru's setting extreme by any stretch. These are just 9900k things.

 

[Robert896r1]

@Ross Thomson Here is P95 non avx with the same conditions as above. Kitguru settings. 15min run and hwinfo64 reset after 10mins to get average loads



As you can see P95 is very consistent in it's load thus leading to higher average temps. This is why I like using to just to find the max thermal capacity of a cooling unit because the cooling unit doesn't get a break.

 

[Robert896r1]

Last test. My daily settings. 5.1ghz all core. 1.33v turbo llc. P95 non avx. As you can you see temps are *high* This is more or less the thermal limit of this cooling setup. Again, the consistency of load from P95 is what makes it very good for stressing cooling systems.



If the day comes that an air cooler can match this, I'm all for it. Advancement is great.

 

[doyll]

Kit Guru test methodology give no details of how the testing is done. Is air temp into cooler / raidiator monitored and recorded same time as CPU temp is recorded? Are fan speeds the same for all cooler when temps are recordced? Is noise leve the same on all cooers when temps are recorded? Therfore Kit Guru testing is ambiguous and invalid. The same lack of testing methodology applies to tom'sHardware reveiw. Lots of fancy graphs without any explaination of test procedure makes them invalid, even though it's only CLCs being tested.

Even with this dubious testing at maximum OC, CLC temps range from 57.1-66.5c with D15 being 63.1c .. 3.4c better than H100 and 6c warmer than Castle 240DX. and DRP4 is 69.1c, only2.6c warmer than warmest CLC. Noise levels have DRP4 at 39.4dB, quieter than quietest CLC at 41.2dB, D15 at 44.1dB and H100 at 53.7dB. Human ear needs about 3dB change in sound pressure to register a difference in sound level, and 10dB change sounds half / twice as loud to human ear. So to our ears D15 sounds the same as quietest CLC and loudest CLC sounds almost twice as loud as D15. Compound all of this with D15 being one of if not the most expensive air cooler on the market while coolers like TRUE Spirit 140 Power cool as well as D15 at same fan speed costs about 4/7th's as much. CLCs range from £50 to £232.99 while air coolers range from about £9 to NH-D15 chromax.black £92.99, Cooler Master Wraith Ripper at £119.99 and most expensive Prolimatech Genisus w/ Silent Wings 3 PWM High Speed fans. That leaves approximately another 63 CLC's costing more than most expensive air cooler listed on OcUK.

Last test. My daily settings. 5.1ghz all core. 1.33v turbo llc. P95 non avx. As you can you see temps are *high* This is more or less the thermal limit of this cooling setup. Again, the consistency of load from P95 is what makes it very good for stressing cooling systems.

If the day comes that an air cooler can match this, I'm all for it. Advancement is great.

That is your assumption. One not backed up with any unbiased testing of air coolers to verify your claim.

We need air cooler testing done with system noise level and air temp going into cooler and radiator recorded at same time CPU temp is ran on your system for us to have data that will either verify or refute your claim.

 

[Robert896r1]

Kit Guru test methodology give no details of how the testing is done. Is air temp into cooler / raidiator monitored and recorded same time as CPU temp is recorded? Are fan speeds the same for all cooler when temps are recordced? Is noise leve the same on all cooers when temps are recorded? Therfore Kit Guru testing is ambiguous and invalid. The same lack of testing methodology applies to tom'sHardware reveiw. Lots of fancy graphs without any explaination of test procedure makes them invalid, even though it's only CLCs being tested.

Even with this dubious testing at maximum OC, CLC temps range from 57.1-66.5c with D15 being 63.1c .. 3.4c better than H100 and 6c warmer than Castle 240DX. and DRP4 is 69.1c, only2.6c warmer than warmest CLC. Noise levels have DRP4 at 39.4dB, quieter than quietest CLC at 41.2dB, D15 at 44.1dB and H100 at 53.7dB. Human ear needs about 3dB change in sound pressure to register a difference in sound level, and 10dB change sounds half / twice as loud to human ear. So to our ears D15 sounds the same as quietest CLC and loudest CLC sounds almost twice as loud as D15. Compound all of this with D15 being one of if not the most expensive air cooler on the market while coolers like TRUE Spirit 140 Power cool as well as D15 at same fan speed costs about 4/7th's as much. CLCs range from £50 to £232.99 while air coolers range from about £9 to NH-D15 chromax.black £92.99, Cooler Master Wraith Ripper at £119.99 and most expensive Prolimatech Genisus w/ Silent Wings 3 PWM High Speed fans. That leaves approximately another 63 CLC's costing more than most expensive air cooler listed on OcUK.


That is your assumption. One not backed up with any unbiased testing of air coolers to verify your claim.

We need air cooler testing done with system noise level and air temp going into cooler and radiator recorded at same time CPU temp is ran on your system for us to have data that will either verify or refute your claim.

yawn. same crap different day. "dubious, assumption, blah blah blah." Best thing about this thread is it exposes your lack of direct knowledge so hopefully it's a nice warning to others.

 

[doyll]

yawn. same crap different day. "dubious, assumption, blah blah blah." Best thing about this thread is it exposes your lack of direct knowledge so hopefully it's a nice warning to others.

Your "dubious, assumption, blah blah blah" is all it is without supporting data of what your system might do when setup with a good air flow and air cooler. You go from a Dark Rock 4 (which is far from being one of best air coolers) mounted in a case that was quite possibly not supplying DR4 wiht air within 5c of room ambient to a CLC and make outlandish claims of how much better your new CLC is. If you live near me you can bring your sytem over and we could set it up with good airflow and top tier cooler and see what it will or will not do. But I doubt you want to know the truth.

 

[Robert896r1]

Your "dubious, assumption, blah blah blah" is all it is without supporting data of what your system might do when setup with a good air flow and air cooler. You go from a Dark Rock 4 (which is far from being one of best air coolers) mounted in a case that was quite possibly not supplying DR4 wiht air within 5c of room ambient to a CLC and make outlandish claims of how much better your new CLC is. If you live near me you can bring your sytem over and we could set it up with good airflow and top tier cooler and see what it will or will not do. But I doubt you want to know the truth.

It's clear you avoided watching or reading any links I've posted as you did not address a single one as a point or counterpoint instead solely relying on your hypotheticals. You've done nothing to expand your knowledge base.

Every reviewer or test that doesn't conform to your narrow view has a lot to answer for in your head.

I hope you end up with a 9900k one day. Will be fun to see the mental gymnastics.

 

[Ross Thomson]

yawn. same crap different day. "dubious, assumption, blah blah blah." Best thing about this thread is it exposes your lack of direct knowledge so hopefully it's a nice warning to others.

just think that is the temps on an open air test bench. The D15 would be worse in a case. He can't handle any result that shows an AIO being cooler, cheaper and quieter than an air cooler.

 

[doyll]

It's clear you avoided watching or reading any links I've posted as you did not address a single one as a point or counterpoint instead solely relying on your hypotheticals. You've done nothing to expand your knowledge base.

Every reviewer or test that doesn't conform to your narrow view has a lot to answer for in your head.

I hope you end up with a 9900k one day. Will be fun to see the mental gymnastics.

I'm not wasting time viewing vidoe review almost exclusively done by talking heads doing tests with no scientific foundaton.

Your hypotheticals are the problem here, not mine. I've repeatedly posted supporting data and links showing my claims that top tier air cools as well as CLCs and even AIOs excetp for Swiftech X3 which is only a couple degrees / db quieter.

Like I said before, "You go from a Dark Rock 4 (which is far from being one of best air coolers) mounted in a case that was quite possibly not supplying DR4 wiht air within 5c of room ambient to a CLC and make outlandish claims of how much better your new CLC is. If you live near me you can bring your sytem over and we could set it up with good airflow and top tier cooler and see what it will or will not do. But I doubt you want to know the truth."

As I said above, if you bring your system to south Devon for a day we can run accurate comparison testing.

But instead of answering what I post (even though you quote it) you go off on another tangent with no supporting data that is done accurately .. like monitoring/recording air temp into cooler/radiator and CPU temp at same time to give accurate delta temp of how each cooler is perfoming and testing using equal noise levels and airflow temps for both air cooler and CLC.

just think that is the temps on an open air test bench. The D15 would be worse in a case. He can't handle any result that shows an AIO being cooler, cheaper and quieter than an air cooler.

D15 will only be worse if case airflow is not setup properly. I've repeatedly said AIOs like Swiftech X3 and other older models edge out top tier air by a couple degrees / db.

Serveral members here are not interested in truth but pushing their unfounded belief that CLCs are better than air cooling, and reality has proven time and again they are not .. and thats not even considering how much more CLCs cost or that they will not last near as long as air cooling.

 

[Ross Thomson]

D15 will only be worse if case airflow is not setup properly. I've repeatedly said AIOs like Swiftech X3 and other older models edge out top tier air by a couple degrees / db.

Serveral members here are not interested in truth but pushing their unfounded belief that CLCs are better than air cooling, and reality has proven time and again they are not .. and thats not even considering how much more CLCs cost or that they will not last near as long as air cooling.

no it won't because the air in the case won't be ambient. Most people don't have case that have good airflow. AIO's have been shown to be better than the massive lumps of air coolers on several types of CPU all over the internet both users and reviewers. you don't even have to go to the X3 which isn't the best performing AIO on the market to have an AIO that performs better than an air cooler.

 

[doyll]

no it won't because the air in the case won't be ambient. Most people don't have case that have good airflow. AIO's have been shown to be better than the massive lumps of air coolers on several types of CPU all over the internet both users and reviewers. you don't even have to go to the X3 which isn't the best performing AIO on the market to have an AIO that performs better than an air cooler.

True, case airflow into air cooler is 1-5c above room ambient with both CPU and GPU running stress test loads in a properly setup case .. assuming case has decent venting so it can be setup with good airflow.
Everyone's cases I know have good case airflow .. as to many forum members who understand how to setup case airflow.
No, AIOs (99% are CLCs) do not cool better. I don't care if you believe it or not, it is a fact which I have posted data proving in this thread even. The test data from George Sella's cooler testing when he was reviewing coolers is posted in post #45 & post #47 this thread are results of testing done in case built test station. It's definite proof of what I say. That testing procedure can easily be duplicated by anyone with similar equipment and they will get similar results.

 

[Ross Thomson]

The overwhelming evidence online shows AIO's cool better than air. if you choose to ignore it and be an AIO denier then no one can help you.

 

[doyll]

Only in your mind, not in reality.
I'll make you the same offer; bring your sytem over and I'll show you how it will perform as well on top tier air as it does with your CLC.