Mate unemployed seeks new career - IT?

[opethdisciple]

I have a friend (of a friend actually) who is 25 no GCSE's etc to his name and currently unemployed.

He is seeking a career path and I suggested IT as that's what I am doing.

At first I told him to look at doing the RHCSA and RHCE and then seeking a systems engineering role. But then I thought this might be a bit too high up for someone with ZERO experience. (Unless you count COD on the Xbox as experience)

As I started out in the industry with some Microsoft certs and then a low level 1st line support role, I thought that would be a good enough start for him. (I did have a degree and a master tho)

What do you think, start at the bottom with some MCP's and then move in to technical support and move up from there or go from A to C and try to get a Linux administration role via studying the RHCSA/RHCE and Ansible?

The other reason why I suggest the 1st line support is because he has nothing on his CV and no money. So really shouldn't spend the next 6-12 months just studying.

The quicker he is in a job the sooner he can start building up his experience hence the 1st line support avenue. It will be quicker to break in via this route than going for a higher up role with no experience in any IT capacity.

 

[tom_e]

No GCSE's and no experience I think he'll struggle even getting into 1st line as they usually want at least basic GCSEs.

He may want to look into at least getting English and Maths GCSEs but currently I think he'd be dumped in the first paper sift without those and with zero IT experience.

 

[peterwalkley]

Playing Devil's advocate a bit here, but what is he actually capable of over and above the usual crappy end of the job market (stacking shelves, McD's litter patrol etc...) ? As @tom_e said, coming out of school with no qualifications is a massive red flag for any IT role. Even in a job, he's also easily replaceable by someone cheaper offshore.

What has he been doing since leaving school ?

 

[opethdisciple]

I cant say too much, but from what I have been told the fact he has no qualifications hasn't been all his fault.

Parents are at fault. Family issues.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

at 25 with no GCSE's or experience sounds like your mate is going to have to go back into education. I would suggest an apprenticeship to get his foot through the door on an IT course. During this time he would probably work in a company in IT and might get funding for this. The job centre MIGHT fund this also.

He will have to do English and Maths as well to at least get some grades.

 

[opethdisciple]

Really? He needs GCSE's?

I thought he could do some MTA (Microsoft courses) Windows 10, Windows server and Networking and then from there start calling recruiters asking if there are any internships out there he could do.

Work for free essentially for a few months.

Basic tech support stuff.

 

[Freakbro]

Really? He needs GCSE's?

Without Maths and English I'd be surprised if he got his foot in anywhere even remotely technical.

He should sign up to a local college for evening classes at least in these in the meantime, he can at least show he is putting the effort in to get them, while still looking for an entry position

 

[Gray2233]

He'll need some basic level of Maths and English.

He could look into getting Key Skills Level 2 in both, they can be completed fairly quickly and most accept them as substitutes for GCSE's in those areas.

Most importantly, is he actually interested in IT? He's going to have to play catch up in some respects, starting down a path he may not enjoy while already behind might not be the best thing for him. I'd suggest he looks at the sort of thing he's good at and where his interests are and try to find an area that fits. I agree that an apprenticeship of some sort is his best bet once he meets the basic requirements (which probably will be those aforementioned GCSE/Key Skills qualifications). He could be better off in a trade, many of them are in high demand and damn good money. I wish I'd gone that route when I was younger over opting to spend large portions of my life sat at a desk.

He needs to start adding to his C.V as soon as he possibly can either way. While he's working on getting up to speed with English/Math he could consider volunteering in a charity shop or for some form of community work.

There's also free online courses he could consider that he could do in his spare time, see here:

https://www.vision2learn.net/courses

They're not going to do wonders for him, but you do get a level 2 certification at the end and they'll add to his C.V for very little effort.

 

[malachi]

Can they read and write? If so, what path do they want to follow in IT as there are so many?

I would start from the basics such as Comptia A+, N+ then move onto the MS certs such as Modern Desktop Cert (Skip the MTA) or the Cisco route.

 

[opethdisciple]

Can they read and write? If so, what path do they want to follow in IT as there are so many?

I would start from the basics such as Comptia A+, N+ then move onto the MS certs such as Modern Desktop Cert (Skip the MTA) or the Cisco route.

Well thats pretty much what Im suggesting here.

A+ and the MTA certs.

 

[DomBruv]

I work in IT and have no GCSE's, pretty decent pay and they put me through all the college stuff when i started, now i have level 3 in IT and MS + Apple certs

 

[malachi]

I work in IT and have no GCSE's, pretty decent pay and they put me through all the college stuff when i started, now i have level 3 in IT and MS + Apple certs

I do have GCSE's but not very good grades. But even if I had none, I can read and write, so I would still be able to get into IT as I have the technical skills and be able to troubleshoot.

I got my first IT job because I did it as an hobby.

 

[Martynt74]

The other option here is to just lie about having no GCSEs. It's long enough since that no-one is particularly going to question it.

I don't think i've ever really been asked for proof of anything other than professional qualifications (AAT, ACCA etc)

Might not be ethical but might get him in the door.

As mentioned though, is IT something he actually wants to do? What's he been doing for the ~10yrs since high school?

 

[opethdisciple]

The other option here is to just lie about having no GCSEs. It's long enough since that no-one is particularly going to question it.

I don't think i've ever really been asked for proof of anything other than professional qualifications (AAT, ACCA etc)

Might not be ethical but might get him in the door.

As mentioned though, is IT something he actually wants to do? What's he been doing for the ~10yrs since high school?

Well 3/4 jobs haven't checked. But the one I am currently in asked me to fill out all education and employment history and did a background check.

 

[opethdisciple]

I think for now we are gonna ignore the issue of GCSEs.

My question more specifically is, can someone study for say the RHCSA, RHCE and Ansible and get a junior engineering role?

I know the RHCE is as tough as nails, but having studied the material myself I thought it was a good learning exercise.

It's a chicken and an egg scenario. He needs experience to get a job. And needs a job to get experience.

But I do know the market is hunger. It's a candidate's market. There is a technical skills gap and companies are willing to take people who are not the finished articles.

I'm just trying to save him time and money. Because if he goes down the RH routes and keeps getting rejected because of no experience that's a waste of time and money. And on the flip side, no point in him going and doing A+ and Microsoft certs if he could just study the RH stuff and start off in a better job at a higher level on better pay.

 

[malachi]

I think for now we are gonna ignore the issue of GCSEs.

My question more specifically is, can someone study for say the RHCSA, RHCE and Ansible and get a junior engineering role?

I know the RHCE is as tough as nails, but having studied the material myself I thought it was a good learning exercise.

It's a chicken and an egg scenario. He needs experience to get a job. And needs a job to get experience.

But I do know the market is hunger. It's a candidate's market. There is a technical skills gap and companies are willing to take people who are not the finished articles.

I'm just trying to save him time and money. Because if he goes down the RH routes and keeps getting rejected because of no experience that's a waste of time and money. And on the flip side, no point in him going and doing A+ and Microsoft certs if he could just study the RH stuff and start off in a better job at a higher level on better pay.

Where do they live? Demand for technical skills is dependent on area. I know the Midlands area isn't so hot right now for IT. That's one reason why I left.

 

[dowie]

Really? He needs GCSE's?

Well it isn't necessarily about him needing them for the job necessarily but the lack of them raises an obvious red flag. Why doesn't have have any - is he really thick? What happened at school - did he just not turn up to any exams etc..?

Also what has he been doing for the 9 years since then - why couldn't have have gotten some sort of basic qualifications in that time. You mention patterns being an issue - how/why? Has he been living at home the whole time just doing nothing?

There are various options for adult education - he really ought to sort himself out there whether he gets a 1st line job right now or not.

I thought he could do some MTA (Microsoft courses) Windows 10, Windows server and Networking and then from there start calling recruiters asking if there are any internships out there he could do.

Work for free essentially for a few months.

Basic tech support stuff.

That's illegal in the UK - we have minimum wage laws. The exception is apprenticeships where you can be paid less than the minimum wage - though again his lack of qualifications is a stumbling block there.

The bottom line is, from an employers perspective, this is a guy with nothing on paper seemingly, no work experience(?) either and you want them to take a financial risk on him when they've probably got other candidates too - for what reason would they choose him?

 

[opethdisciple]

Where do they live? Demand for technical skills is dependent on area. I know the Midlands area isn't so hot right now for IT. That's one reason why I left.

London

 

[Amplus]

I think for now we are gonna ignore the issue of GCSEs.

My question more specifically is, can someone study for say the RHCSA, RHCE and Ansible and get a junior engineering role?

I know the RHCE is as tough as nails, but having studied the material myself I thought it was a good learning exercise.

It's a chicken and an egg scenario. He needs experience to get a job. And needs a job to get experience.

But I do know the market is hunger. It's a candidate's market. There is a technical skills gap and companies are willing to take people who are not the finished articles.

I'm just trying to save him time and money. Because if he goes down the RH routes and keeps getting rejected because of no experience that's a waste of time and money. And on the flip side, no point in him going and doing A+ and Microsoft certs if he could just study the RH stuff and start off in a better job at a higher level on better pay.

Is it a candidates market?? With the uncertainty of Brexit seems to be less jobs available at the minute. Almost all jobs that are advertised require plenty of experience as well.

 

[Maundie]

I think for now we are gonna ignore the issue of GCSEs.

Really as his CV is so bare the fact he also has got any GCSE's sticks out a mile, plenty of people have mentioned on here that he could do a night course on English and maths (normally these are free to people who are un-employed) and he at least shows he's trying to rectify the situation.

Also the volunteering is a great shout as it shows they are happy to get off their ass and do something rather than sit at home playing games, if I was looking for someone in an entry level position with the information you've provided his CV would go straight in the bin. It's a difficult world out there and you need something to stand out on your CV in a positive way and from what you've described he hasn't got anything at all positive.