Franco's tomb desecrated for political aggrandisement.

Chris Wilson · 25 Oct 2019 at 11:43

StriderX said:
No one has done what you said, he's being moved next to his wife, arguably a nice thing.

Franco had his own tomb and mausoleum designed *for himself*, the monument, considered a landmark of 20th-century Spanish architecture, was designed by Pedro Muguruza and Diego Méndez on a scale to equal, according to the General, "the grandeur of the monuments of old, which defy time and memory". If he wished to be interred with his wife in some urban, relativel nondescript cemetery I am sure he would and could have actioned such a thing. It's hardly for some new Prime Minister to decide Franco would better lie next to his wife than in the mausoleum he had built for himself, save for purely political reasons. Having one's new resting place decided by others after a long interment for political "points" shows desperation, in my opinion.

iamtheoneneo · 25 Oct 2019 at 11:45

BowdonUK said:
Imagine being such a low life that in 2019 you think desecrating graves is an ok thing to do.

You know what I'd take being considered a low life anyday compared to a mass murderer sympathiser ...that's all fine with me.

I wonder if any of his victims had the same level of courtesy given to them....oh wait, they didnt, they were executed as meaningless objects in the way of a tyrant.

What next, you fancy going to fetch Bin Laden from the sea and giving him a military honors parade around new york...

StriderX · 25 Oct 2019 at 11:46

What the ****? How can you sit there and think that the West stopped Nazi Germany?

75% (at least) of the entire German military was on the Eastern front, what a load of actual *****.

W. Churchill: "Red Army decided the fate of German militarism".

And they still got to Berlin before we did, the West would have done the same thing with his body (considering the massive anti-fascist campaign in West Germany), perhaps with less of a political maneuver like trying to create the conspiracy that the West harboured Hitler knowing full well he was dead.

jsmoke · 25 Oct 2019 at 12:13

Chris Wilson said:
Thank the Lord for that, but I never cease to be amazed about how little real world history is implanted between people's ears in quite recent UK education No offence!

None taken as I left school in 1994. I left knowing little about anything though.

Chris Wilson · 25 Oct 2019 at 12:26

jsmoke said:
None taken as I left school in 1994. I left knowing little about anything though.

You have the better of me still, as I was "asked" to leave...

But still, I have to admit to improper nostalgia over casual violence, extremely irreverent, but seemingly welcome treatment of girls, and a never ending, but never fruitful line of get rich quick schemes, usually hatched under the influence of alcohol, over shared cigarettes.

spolsh · 25 Oct 2019 at 12:49

So nobodys asked Franco how he feels about it , time for a seance ...

VincentHanna · 25 Oct 2019 at 12:50

BowdonUK said:
We're the ones who stopped Nazi Germany. If any one should have taken control of his body it should have been us.

*Chortle*

"We" helped stop Nazi Germany (The UK) - But the USA and Soviets bore the brunt of that.

It was 74 years ago. "We" (You and me) did **** all.

dirtychinchilla · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:04

Chris Wilson said:
Now, as a long standing forum member you *KNOW* Brexit discussion has its own sterile space in the Speaker's Corner, you'll find all the support you'll need over yonder....

Just making sure we're comparing apples with apples...

BowdonUK · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:13

VincentHanna said:
*Chortle*

"We" helped stop Nazi Germany (The UK) - But the USA and Soviets bore the brunt of that.

It was 74 years ago. "We" (You and me) did **** all.

Aren't you forgetting the battle of Britain? We were the only ones holding off the Nazi's. Nobody was around then. The US only came in to help us when they realised if we fell they would have been surrounded.

We're a product of our history, whether we like it or hate it.

VincentHanna · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:16

Yes "we" stopped their invasion of the Great Britain in the summer of 1940, but that didn't stop the Nazis.

That took 5 more years.

BowdonUK · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:20

iamtheoneneo said:
You know what I'd take being considered a low life anyday compared to a mass murderer sympathiser ...that's all fine with me.

I wonder if any of his victims had the same level of courtesy given to them....oh wait, they didnt, they were executed as meaningless objects in the way of a tyrant.

What next, you fancy going to fetch Bin Laden from the sea and giving him a military honors parade around new york...

Our morals aren't defined by the actions of others. It is what we consider good or bad behaviour.

Just because someone else is bad doesn't entitle us to be bad.

Who said anything about military honors? I'm talking about basic human decency.

If you fall out with someone and you end up dying and that person is in a position to do something to your body, by your logic if he thinks your a bad person he can do what he wants to you?

StriderX · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:28

BowdonUK said:
Our morals aren't defined by the actions of others. It is what we consider good or bad behaviour.

Just because someone else is bad doesn't entitle us to be bad.

Who said anything about military honors? I'm talking about basic human decency.

If you fall out with someone and you end up dying and that person is in a position to do something to your body, by your logic if he thinks your a bad person he can do what he wants to you?

THINKS? It's objective fact that these are evil people, there is no "opinion" here, or there was no point in western values.

We cannot tolerate intolerance.

deuse · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:34

The libs changing history page by page.

StriderX · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:36

deuse said:
The libs changing history page by page.

What history is that? What do you think is changing here? Wikipedia will already have been updated to show his movement, if anything it's history being MADE.

Why don't you evidence when a liberal has tried to erase history and we can see if you have a point, because i already have dozens of articles showing authoritarians erasing people, events, misinforming people, creating conspiracies that i can waste time ******** all over this.

deuse · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:38

StriderX said:
What history is that?

Not sure if serious.

Blackjack Davy · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:40

Malevolence said:
We should start with Stalin and Mao first though, because between them they killed so many people that it makes the number killed by the fascists seem insignificant. And then afterwards perhaps we could move onto raiding museums and chucking all the Roman, Viking and Norman remains into the sea too.

Don't forget Lenin too, how many deaths is he responsible for? Its about time he was tossed out of his mausoleum. Won't happen though there are too many on the Left who still regard him as a hero, Comrade Corbyn would have a fit!

Dis86 · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:43

VincentHanna said:
*Chortle*

"We" helped stop Nazi Germany (The UK) - But the USA and Soviets bore the brunt of that.

It was 74 years ago. "We" (You and me) did **** all.

Inaccurate. The only nations who fought against Nazi Germany for the duration of the war were Britain and France. Britain fought against them for 2.5 years before Russia joined (after initially being their allies) and 3 years before the US joined. Even then support from America largely consisted of material rather than man power.

StriderX · 25 Oct 2019 at 13:44

Dis86 said:
Inaccurate. The only nations who fought against Nazi Germany for the duration of the war were Britain and France. Britain fought against them for 2.5 years before Russia joined (after initially being their allies) and 3 years before the US joined. Even then support from America largely consisted of material rather than man power.

How is it inaccurate? You've added substance for little reason.

It's rather irrelevant when people joined the war (we literally ran away at the start, which was obviously wise, but still), it's about effort.

BowdonUK · 25 Oct 2019 at 14:13

StriderX said:
THINKS? It's objective fact that these are evil people, there is no "opinion" here, or there was no point in western values.

We cannot tolerate intolerance.

I was giving an example about @iamtheoneneo , which though we are disagreeing, I wouldn't call him an evil person.

The point I was making is if the principle is changed so we don't give basic respect to those we disagree with then where does it end?

I don't agree with your last line.

Why don't you have faith in the people to allow intolerant views to be expressed and then condemned? Also what are we calling intolerance? Is that a view or an action? Because it seems to be a lot of the extreme left are putting comments they don't agree with as intolerant and banning speech. So now if someone says something they don't like they are called evil people and don't deserve basic respect?

It is very easy to see how we're heading to world war 3, when authoritarian positions like that are creeping in to normal conversations.

The only way to fight intolerant views and actions is to show reason and love i.e. the opposite. It's not to start being even more intolerant. Hate will never defeat hate.

Dis86 · 25 Oct 2019 at 15:02

StriderX said:
How is it inaccurate? You've added substance for little reason.

It's rather irrelevant when people joined the war (we literally ran away at the start, which was obviously wise, but still), it's about effort.

We didn't literally run away at all. Britain was in constant conflict throughout the entire war. It also suffered more losses than the US for example.
It's entirely relevant when they joined. Britain aided Poland and Europe from the start. Other nations actively fought against Poland or turned a blind eye. Something that should never be forgotten.