The protected status of being pregnant...aka being off sick as much as you like

Caporegime
Joined
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29,913
Location
England
Sure they do. See them all the time. They will often last for a year or more, due to post-birth maternity leave and flexi-hours for child care, and many people find it either a good stepping stone to other things or even a step up into such a role full time. Half our asset planning department began life as maternity cover.

Your experience is vastly different to mine.

When you are recruiting for a professional role all the potential applicants are generally already in a permanent job and aren't going to give it up for a temporary post no matter how much we offer. If you do get someone then by the time they get up to speed they are already on their way out making it a pointless exercise. And don't even get me started on agency staff and the additional expense involved in that.

Maternity leave is a massive burden to businesses and the taxpayer that cannot effectively be migitated.

You can't compare it to someone being hit by a car because you can recruit someone to a permanent post much more easily and you don't have to double fund the position. In the public sector just trying to get the funding to cover maternity leave is a problem. It's not about staff being irreplaceable, indeed if the staff left or were fired it would actually be far less disruptive to the organisation.

I've given up permanent roles myself for temporary ones because they offered progression, but fixed term positions promising 18 months, not maternity cover which could last for all of 3 months, it's generally a road to nowhere.
 
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Soldato
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18,535
Location
Aberdeen
My sister-in-law had significant problems during her second pregancy and there were several scares along the way. But surely the simple way to take care of this if she is faking is to require a doctor's certification?
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Dec 2012
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17,494
Location
Gloucestershire
Being no expert myself,
This
but still with a few degrees
post
than you appear to have...
is
Take whatever you may have heard or read
so
and throw it out the window.
tedious
Some women might have not one
to
single sick day,
read
while others may be reduced
with
to a constantly puking
all
wreck for every single day
the
and night of their nine month pregnancy...
separate
with all manner of variations
quotes
between, as well as plenty
that
of other symptoms
I
not even fully understood yet.
Just
This is not a car manual.
haven't
All kinds of things can happen.
bothered
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
Posts
12,300
This

post

is

so

tedious

to

read

with

all

the

separate

quotes

that

I

Just

haven't

bothered


Lucky it weren't addressed to you then, innit...!
If people didn't post so many different questionable things all in the one post, I'd not have to sift them out with multiquotes. Normally I'd interrupt and stop them there, but over the internet, it's the best I can do.
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
Posts
12,300
Your experience is vastly different to mine.
I work with engineers. They're ten a penny, it seems... Also easy to find someone with transferrable skills, rather than being one of only 24 people in the entire country who can do the job. So yeah, whatever Vexr does for a living I'm guessing is similar to yours?

When you are recruiting for a professional role all the potential applicants are generally already in a permanent job and aren't going to give it up for a temporary post no matter how much we offer.
Oh well. No staff, company falls, then.
Guess you'll all have to do the slacker's work for them until they return and... well, continue to slack, from the sounds of it.
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
58,899
This

post

is

so

tedious

:D

It is how he likes to post, problem is he often then takes the sentences in isolation the goes off on some tangent that doesn't take into account the context in which the sentence or snippet of a sentence was posted in the first place... Of course if you reply to each quote with anything nuanced then you'll get even more multi quotes the next time and so on... it could expand exponentially and break the forums - thus it is better to just keep the replies slightly limited and trim away some of the chaff...
 
Caporegime
Joined
12 Mar 2004
Posts
29,913
Location
England
I work with engineers. They're ten a penny, it seems... Also easy to find someone with transferrable skills, rather than being one of only 24 people in the entire country who can do the job. So yeah, whatever Vexr does for a living I'm guessing is similar to yours?


Oh well. No staff, company falls, then.
Guess you'll all have to do the slacker's work for them until they return and... well, continue to slack, from the sounds of it.

Sounds like engineers are less in demand than social workers then.

I work for an organisation that employs a lot of people in many different areas, not any women in the IT department.

An organisation employing 10,000+ people is not going to fail because a couple hundred of staff are on maternity leave, it's just going perform more poorly, especially when that organisation is funded by taxpayers money...
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
Posts
12,300
:D
It is how he likes to post, problem is he often then takes the sentences in isolation the goes off on some tangent that doesn't take into account the context in which the sentence or snippet of a sentence was posted in the first place... Of course if you reply to each quote with anything nuanced then you'll get even more multi quotes the next time and so on... it could expand exponentially and break the forums - thus it is better to just keep the replies slightly limited and trim away some of the chaff...
Doesn't matter what I post or how I post it, you'll find a way to ignore the context and claim I am lying anyway, so what the **** do I care if you don't like it?
But you clearly want another ******* argument to derail yet another ******* thread, so get on with it, bitch....

Sounds like engineers are less in demand than social workers then.
No, they're highly in demand. It's mainly that a lot of them learn better project management than actual Project Managers and go do that job instead because it pays better.
This is why God created Technicians to fill the roles...

An organisation employing 10,000+ people is not going to fail because a couple hundred of staff are on maternity leave, it's just going perform more poorly, especially when that organisation is funded by taxpayers money...
But when those on maternity are one of only a couple dozen qualified people in the entire country?
 
Caporegime
Joined
12 Mar 2004
Posts
29,913
Location
England
No, they're highly in demand. It's mainly that a lot of them learn better project management than actual Project Managers and go do that job instead because it pays better.
This is why God created Technicians to fill the roles...

But still evidently less in demand than social workers.

But when those on maternity are one of only a couple dozen qualified people in the entire country?

So you're now agreeing with the OP that the company couldn't do anything to mitigate the problem?
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
Posts
12,300
But still evidently less in demand than social workers.
Debatable.
They'd be in less demand if we offered a decent salary, but those engineers who do still want to work as engineers in engineering can get paid much better for it elsewhere.

So you're now agreeing with the OP that the company couldn't do anything to mitigate the problem?
No, just entirely lacking any sympathy over the fact that they didn't think to already have some sort of measures in place for such a likely eventuality...
 
Associate
OP
Joined
15 Oct 2018
Posts
1,287
Farcebook statuses and things take mere moments and don't exactly require much in the way of concentration, do they?

I was hoping I'd explained how the team was having their suspicions confirmed. She wasn't merely updating her facebook status, she was initiating facetime conversations (aka video calling) and IMing others with no sign of distress/sickness but to alleviate her boredom. Her friend suffers from migraines and had a rare sickday off the same time as her, and yet Ms Pregnant was cheerily wanting to facetime her while the one with the migraine wanted nothing more than to shut herself in a dark room and interact with no one and nothing.

Regarding Ms Sarcoidosis, then her own friend of a couple of decades reluctantly began pressing the issue with management as she observed the rest of her team disintegrate around her, with the arrow pointing firmly at her old time friend who was constantly off sick and leaving those remaining up to their necks in extra work and hassle. You also haven't explained how her sarcoidosis made her try to call in her sick days as 'days off in lieu' and how she jumped at the chance of a six month sabbatical, which she then took travelling the world in rude health.

I see you haven't even attempted to explain Ms Depression / Anxiety and her routine of six months off every two years, just-a-say recovering enough to do her job until she is again eligible to be off for another 6 months at full pay, then repeating the process.

You have nothing but heresay... and were her symptoms to be proven genuine, your company would have been messing with a pregnant woman. That can often bring legal pain down on them like a ton of bricks.

Our company hasn't been messing with a pregnant woman at all, they've acquiesced completely. It's the team that has taken the fall doing the unpaid overtime and having our stress levels go through the roof trying to keep on top of things. Our reward for this is to be accused of thought crime on the internet for noticing we're taking the fall for someone who has evidence mounting that they're malingering. Our manager (who is a bit of a novice in this situation) says they'll call HR again to discuss the situation, but otherwise keeping the poker face on when the individual in question is back in the office (and always she's absolutely chipper when she is in - definitely no sign of any discomfort whatsoever on our office days, even if apparently too ill to work from home the day before).
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
Posts
12,300
She wasn't merely updating her facebook status, she was initiating facetime conversations (aka video calling) and IMing others with no sign of distress/sickness but to alleviate her boredom.
Yes.... Have you ever been pregnant?
You can go from absolutely fine and chatty to puking your guts up in mere seconds. Same for wetting yourself, or any number of other pregnancy-related issues. Now, if you want someone to come all the way to work on the train, or whilst in charge of a vehicle, to sit in a meeting with you, to sit right next to you while you're trying to work, and to then head home again, all with that kind of condition ready to spring up within seconds... then fine. You can clear up her mess.
Personally I wouldn't want anything like that anywhere near me...... But that's just me.

Her friend suffers from migraines and had a rare sickday off the same time as her, and yet Ms Pregnant was cheerily wanting to facetime her while the one with the migraine wanted nothing more than to shut herself in a dark room and interact with no one and nothing
Ah, yes, I see your point, now. Because the pregnant woman isn't suffering from conditions you understand, you immediately assume that is proof that she's ************ it?
Well, can't argue with that logic. Go fire her, then. You're happy to represent the company at the tribunal, presumably...?

You also haven't explained how her sarcoidosis made her try to call in her sick days as 'days off in lieu' and how she jumped at the chance of a six month sabbatical, which she then took travelling the world in rude health.
Sorry, I wasn't aware I was required to... All I'm doing is pointing out that you seem somewhat unaware of the conditions actually presented and how they can affect people, while still feeling qualified to pass judgement without anything more substantial than suspicions.
I mean, if they are ************ it, feel free to fire them or whatever it is you do, but you'd need substantial proof from people like doctors and possibly even things like surveilance. Booting someone out simply because Janet in accounts thinks they're pulling a fast one is the reason why certain groups have protected status in the first place.

I see you haven't even attempted to explain Ms Depression / Anxiety and her routine of six months off every two years, just-a-say recovering enough to do her job until she is again eligible to be off for another 6 months at full pay, then repeating the process.
I probably glossed over that one, as I don't immediately recall it and I CBA to go back and look... but again, take your suspicions and match it against anything her doctor(s) or other qualified assessors have given her. Any psychologists or counselors, anyone in your OccHealth department, perhaps even her solicitor.

Our company hasn't been messing with a pregnant woman at all, they've acquiesced completely.
And there's a reason for that... Don't you think if there was actual proof of grounds for dismissal she'd be out the door faster than you could blink?

It's the team that has taken the fall doing the unpaid overtime and having our stress levels go through the roof trying to keep on top of things.
Then either suck it up, force management to resolve the problem caused by their failure to implement contingencies, or just all leave. Either way, hammering the pregnant woman herself for it won't actually fix anything.

Our reward for this is to be accused of thought crime on the internet for noticing we're taking the fall for someone who has evidence mounting that they're malingering.
Take the evidence and her to court (or whatever legal authority is available to you - Line Manager CEO, or whatever), try the case and see where you get, then.... If there's proof, you'll win. If there isn't, BOHICA.

definitely no sign of any discomfort whatsoever on our office days, even if apparently too ill to work from home the day before).
Well, yes, that's the point - There often is no sign. There are usually no signs for a myriad different other ailments, especially mental illnesses, and yet they're often very real.
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
Posts
12,300
I think you already attempted to retract some of your dubious posts... you went on a bit of an editing spree changing them to "nvm"...
Whatever you say.... You are of course, right as always, even if you're not... just so long as you say so.

Nice to know you're stalking all my posts, though...
 
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Soldato
Joined
20 Dec 2004
Posts
15,763
If businesses need workers, then they have to accept that sometimes workers need time off to reproduce and make more workers....sometimes they will be only off a short time, sometimes they will be chronically sick. That is the price of doing business with meatsacks that need to incubate offspring for 9 months.

Personally I think Germany's laws giving 12 months maternity, and 2 months paternity (that can be taken up to 12 months after birth) is a good system that gives parents the the time and security they need to get their child's life started. Businesses in Germany manage to deal with these long absences for men and women just fine....not to mention that anyone can go off long term sick for as long as necessary and there will never be any questions asked from the employer.

And Germans are 30% more productive than Brits.....hmm
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Oct 2004
Posts
13,367
That was interesting read mid gen. How are they more productive than us, I know when I play hearts of iron 4 they have better production and can make tanks a lot quicker?
 
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