Charge on a property.

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 09:54

A friend of mine has troubles with a company such that he has been fined around 40k.

this is money he doesn't have (I don't either ftw) and his legal team have said that he will be put through an affordability calculator to workout how he can pay this money back per month. This Could take a long time though to payback.

His problem is that there is a slight chance said company will put a charge on his home. He lives there with his family but only his name is on the home. He claims this means he will be forced to sell the property. I did not think this was the case?

He's basically looking for someone to help him out i.e transfer of equity so said company can't touch his home. Though I dread the idea of helping him out here as I don't trust what he's telling me to begin with and even if I did help I would take independent legal advice.

Can the said company force him to sell his home to payback his fines? Or could it be that he could live there and when he sells he will be forced to pay said company back that money he owes.

Imho mixing business with friends/family is not often a good idea. what would you all do?

bremen1874 · 28 Oct 2019 at 10:11

Nothing without complete transparency.
Nothing without legal advice at his cost.
Then probably nothing as it’ll most likely come back to bite you.

I would have thought that deliberately moving assets to avoid paying your debts would be heavily frowned on by the courts.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 28 Oct 2019 at 10:11

A charge normally means its only triggered if someone tries to sell the property, at that point they should be given what they are owed.

skyripper · 28 Oct 2019 at 10:12

A charge on a property means they have a claim to any money from the sale of said property.

A legal charge is a method by which a lender protects the money they have lent to an individual or company. It is a legal document signed by the borrower and which is registered against a property at the Land Registry so as to alert any potential buyer of the existence of the debt.

I would stay the hell away from lending money or getting involved legally with this. He's obviously worried about the company going after his assets, although why he is he looking for you to take them on, rather than family is a big red flag to me.

fastwunz · 28 Oct 2019 at 10:34

Run a mile....... and then keep going

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 10:43

thanks for confirming regarding the charge. Is there something different that HMRC can do? Said company = HMRC

I wonder if that would change things here. personally I don't see how though.

I am going to run a mile for sure but he's got himself into such a bad position and doing absolutely everything to make his life easier rather than live up and face the consequences that he's got into. I don't see a feasible way out of this.

Semple · 28 Oct 2019 at 10:44

As others have said, they can't force a sale of the home - i believe only your mortgage lender can do this via repossession.

But will mean if he ever sells, or his children have to sell the house when he dies, then the company get paid their monies.

I'm more curious how he managed to incur a 40k fine? Is it actually a fine, or has this company taken him to court for something, and the court has ordered your friend to pay 40k in damages?

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 10:59

Semple said:
As others have said, they can't force a sale of the home - i believe only your mortgage lender can do this via repossession.

But will mean if he ever sells, or his children have to sell the house when he dies, then the company get paid their monies.

I'm more curious how he managed to incur a 40k fine? Is it actually a fine, or has this company taken him to court for something, and the court has ordered your friend to pay 40k in damages?

He's been a bit silly broken the law basically. I can't say much more about this.
He could have gone to jail but luckily he's had a good track record in the past.

I told him that if you play with fire you get burned. He's suffering now but sadly so are his family. No sympathy for him right now.

skyripper · 28 Oct 2019 at 11:18

You know HMRC isnt a company... ? Thats Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs.
With greater powers than the Police to make your life a misery.

I understand you friend wanting to protect his home, but trying to involve you in avoiding liabilities to HMRC is asking for trouble for both of you.
Be his friend by all means. Don't be his fall guy.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 28 Oct 2019 at 11:28

£40k to HMRC is quite a lot for the average person

Is he self employed or running a small business?

Has the debt been fixed in value, or are HMRC allowed to keep adding interest?

If he owes HMRC a lot and hes got away with a charge hes done ok to be honest, they normally don't like recovery of underpaid tax/fines to be dragged out too far.

MikeTheNative · 28 Oct 2019 at 11:33

I do find it funny that you say he was a bit silly ,just has managed to get a £40k fine

. Surely the best person to ask would be his lawyer?

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 11:35

skyripper said:
You know HMRC isnt a company... ? Thats Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs.
With greater powers than the Police to make your life a misery.

I understand you friend wanting to protect his home, but trying to involve you in avoiding liabilities to HMRC is asking for trouble for both of you.
Be his friend by all means. Don't be his fall guy.

yes I know they are the highest of the highest that's why I'm wondering whether there is power to force him to sell to cough up the amount.

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 11:38

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
£40k to HMRC is quite a lot for the average person

Is he self employed or running a small business?

Has the debt been fixed in value, or are HMRC allowed to keep adding interest?

If he owes HMRC a lot and hes got away with a charge hes done ok to be honest, they normally don't like recovery of underpaid tax/fines to be dragged out too far.

Self employed I believe. - does it make a difference?

I believe he said fixed at 40k he didn't mention anything about interest to me.

his legal advisor said that there is a chance this might never happen but if he did he needs to be prepared for a charge on his property. like you said also they tend not to want it to drag on too long.

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 11:39

MikeTheNative said:
I do find it funny that you say he was a bit silly ,just has managed to get a £40k fine . Surely the best person to ask would be his lawyer?

Yep it really does not stop there, like there are other debts on his head ie like credit cards who knows how much and how many?

debt is a difficult thing to talk about to anyone.

200sols · 28 Oct 2019 at 11:42

'Friend' is asking you to hide his assets from HMRC. Run, run fast.

Some friend you got there.

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 11:54

200sols said:
'Friend' is asking you to hide his assets from HMRC. Run, run fast.

Some friend you got there.

yep I know that's why I'm not going to get involved

what if HMRC somehow get in touch with me?!

skyripper · 28 Oct 2019 at 12:06

psd99 said:
Yep it really does not stop there, like there are other debts on his head ie like credit cards who knows how much and how many?

debt is a difficult thing to talk about to anyone.

Credit card debt is at least unsecured. The card providers can chase him for money, but they're more limited unlike HMRC who have some power of seizure without needing to go thru a county court etc.

Debt or financial difficulty is exceedingly difficult to talk about for a lot of people, and is a big factor in mental health.

Is he getting good independent debt advice from someone, or is this all being dealt with by his legal people [whoever they are]?

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 28 Oct 2019 at 12:13

psd99 said:
Self employed I believe. - does it make a difference?

I believe he said fixed at 40k he didn't mention anything about interest to me.

his legal advisor said that there is a chance this might never happen but if he did he needs to be prepared for a charge on his property. like you said also they tend not to want it to drag on too long.

Doesnt make a specific difference, but wondered why they may not try to do a deduction in income at source, that explains why
Also most individuals (bar the super wealthy) who tend to have run ins with HMRC tend to be self employed or running a small business, why?
Because they have most opportunity to con the system.

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 12:29

skyripper said:
Credit card debt is at least unsecured. The card providers can chase him for money, but they're more limited unlike HMRC who have some power of seizure without needing to go thru a county court etc.

Debt or financial difficulty is exceedingly difficult to talk about for a lot of people, and is a big factor in mental health.

Is he getting good independent debt advice from someone, or is this all being dealt with by his legal people [whoever they are]?

I'm not sure if he is getting debt advice but he is getting legal advice.

thanks.

psd99 · 28 Oct 2019 at 12:31

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
but wondered why they may not try to do a deduction in income at source, that explains why
Also most individuals (bar the super wealthy) who tend to have run ins with HMRC tend to be self employed or running a small business, why?
Because they have most opportunity to con the system.

what do you mean by deduction at source?

yep I agree, people can exploit this area much easier. For example all of those shops I go to that NEVER accept credit/debit cards and cash only. I get the feeling that cash is being buried for safe keeping in gaping hole somewhere