39 Bodies found in Lorry in Essex

[stockhausen]

No message.

 

[Angilion]

Yeah it feels like there is a missing category here.

They didnt intend to kill themselves, so suicide or attempted suicide is not applicable. But simple accidental death doesnt do justice to the risk they placed themselves in, where there was a high probability of death.

Accidental suicide? Perhaps a good middle ground. Or self-manslaughter.

Does the UK have a category of "Death by misadventure"? That describes the "missing category" you refer to, but I don't know if it's in UK law.

 

[Angilion]

And you know how the families of the dead felt about it how exactly?
Oh, that's right, you don't know aught; let's blame the victims

What victims?

The people who died chose to commit crimes and take risks in pursuit of profit. The risks were very small, so they decided to take the risk. They were unlucky.
The families who paid a lot of money and gambled their relatives' lives in the hope of gaining more money. They were unlucky.
The people who facilitate it in pursuit of profit and get caught? They're unlucky.

There aren't always victims, even when people die.

Let's say, for example, I play Russian roulette for a bet and die. That wouldn't make me a victim. It would make me unlucky - I took a risk and lost. Hard luck, sad for me. But not a victim.

 

[Destination]

The word victim and the word hero are both used frequently, often not appropriately.

 

[mmj_uk]

Same with survivor, corporate news love their sensationalist headlines.

 

[Efour]

What victims?

The people who died chose to commit crimes and take risks in pursuit of profit. The risks were very small, so they decided to take the risk. They were unlucky.
The families who paid a lot of money and gambled their relatives' lives in the hope of gaining more money. They were unlucky.
The people who facilitate it in pursuit of profit and get caught? They're unlucky.

There aren't always victims, even when people die.

Let's say, for example, I play Russian roulette for a bet and die. That wouldn't make me a victim. It would make me unlucky - I took a risk and lost. Hard luck, sad for me. But not a victim.

I absolutely agree with this.

A few years back these people were "scum" and illegally entering the country, Tv programmes were made about them. No one had sympathy for illegal immigrants... NO ONE. Refugees, economic migrants, whatever. The negative view on them was the norm.
Now this year, they are unfortunate victims?

I know a few Vietnamese Women in Sweden and they are bling, western obsessed, Instagram posting idiots. Its all about designed bags and clothes and milking money from anyone or anything that gives.

Whats really going on? Mass media suddenly found their conscious?
Everything they did was a criminal act. They didn't deserve to die as a punishment for gods sake, but if they had made it and got caught/deported at a later date, that would have been 100% just.

 

[MookJong]

Don’t illegally enter other people’s countries in dangerous ways and you’ll be fine.

 

[Scania]

I absolutely agree with this.

A few years back these people were "scum" and illegally entering the country, Tv programmes were made about them. No one had sympathy for illegal immigrants... NO ONE. Refugees, economic migrants, whatever. The negative view on them was the norm.
Now this year, they are unfortunate victims?

I know a few Vietnamese Women in Sweden, and they are bling, western obsessed, Instagram posting idiots. It's all about designed bags and clothes and milking money from anyone or anything that gives.

What's really going on? Mass media suddenly found their conscious?
Everything they did was a criminal act. They didn't deserve to die as a punishment for god’s sake, but if they had made it and got caught/deported at a later date, that would have been 100% just.

Have to agree too tbh, the mass media have unfortunately just found the next big story though, that's all it is to them, a story, they don't really give a crap.

Because Mo didn't machine gun or blow up his victims, and what and who they are, the media will quickly forget this and move on to the next crap storm about whatever.

There will be a spike in interest again around the trial (s) but, it'll be forgotten again and the flow of people willing to take their chances will continue.

Until society finds a way to stop them coming in the first place (good luck with that one) this will simply carry on.

Don’t illegally enter other people’s countries in dangerous ways and you’ll be fine.

Indeed.

 

[StriderX]

What victims?

The people who died chose to commit crimes and take risks in pursuit of profit. The risks were very small, so they decided to take the risk. They were unlucky.
The families who paid a lot of money and gambled their relatives' lives in the hope of gaining more money. They were unlucky.
The people who facilitate it in pursuit of profit and get caught? They're unlucky.

There aren't always victims, even when people die.

Let's say, for example, I play Russian roulette for a bet and die. That wouldn't make me a victim. It would make me unlucky - I took a risk and lost. Hard luck, sad for me. But not a victim.

They might not be victims, but is there no compassion or emotional response at all for their deaths?

Is that so much to ask?

 

[builder22]

do you have compassion/an emotional response for every death you hear of?

I'm sure if you looked you'd be able to find more than 39 every day

 

[StriderX]

do you have compassion/an emotional response for every death you hear of?

I'm sure if you looked you'd be able to find more than 39 every day

Yes, because i'm not a psycho and actually have empathy for others rather than cold uncaring hatred. I don't necessarily go looking for it, i was hardly going to miss this news.

It's especially saddening considering the way they died (choking to death slowly in a freezing temperature in the dark desperately messaging their families to say goodbye), the way to resolve it would obviously to find a way to stop them from making the trip in the first place, because people are going to continue doing this, regardless. It was their own fault, but that's no reason to throw out an emotional response.

 

[Efour]

Yes, because i'm not a psycho and actually have empathy for others rather than cold uncaring hatred. I don't necessarily go looking for it, i was hardly going to miss this news.

It's especially saddening considering the way they died, the way to resolve it would obviously to find a way to stop them from making the trip in the first place, because people are going to continue doing this, regardless.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50212195

Here something 5x worse for you to be upset about for a few news cycles.

 

[jsmoke]

One of the victims sent 'chilling messages saying she was going to die' according to the SUN.

 

[Efour]

One of the victims sent 'chilling messages saying she was going to die' according to the SUN.

too soon

 

[Angilion]

They might not be victims, but is there no compassion or emotional response at all for their deaths?

Is that so much to ask?

When it's accompanied by lying, yes. When it's purely for fashion driven by the media, yes. Millions of people die every day. Many of them are victims. You can try to use a news story as a way to claim the moral high ground, but that won't wash with me. I'm sure it will get you some brownie points somewhere, but not with me. Despite what you say, reality is not a simple dichotomy of either hand-wringing (but only when it's fashionable) or a complete lack of compassion or emotional response. I reject the use of false dichotomies to promote conflict.

 

[Nasher]

One of the victims sent 'chilling messages saying she was going to die' according to the SUN.

Saw another (RT I think) calling it a "chilling case". Not sure if on purpose...

 

[Jean-F]

Wheres his new cars, high living? all iv seen is a house worth 160k, which is to be honestly hardly a 'high life'

I know absolutely nothing about the housing market in Ulster, so I say this with the utmost respect to the people of Northern Ireland, maybe 160k will buy you a place there, comparable to a house in Eaton Square, Belgravia.

Does the UK have a category of "Death by misadventure"? That describes the "missing category" you refer to, but I don't know if it's in UK law.

That is a category used by coroners at inquests, like “unlawful killing”, “natural causes”, “open verdict”, “suicide while the balance of the mind was disturbed.”

Don’t illegally enter other people’s countries in dangerous ways and you’ll be fine.

Jeez, take it easy pal.

 

[Chris Wilson]

I have to wonder how much "social media" is to blame for all of this. Would these third world country's residents have even known of the alleged streets paved with gold before the internet? I suspect that prior to the internet and cheap digital communications most third world country's residents would never have the slightest inkling or desire to make a perilous and illegal journey across half the world for perceived financial gain. It returns me to my grandfather's comment that education for the working man is a two edged sword.

As for "freezing to death" in a refrigerated trailer, is there any corroborated evidence the `fridge unit was actually turned on, or did the unfortunates merely suffocate in a relatively air tight trailer unit? Either way their demise is tragic, but undoubtedly part of the obvious risk of totally illegal attempts to circumvent international immigration laws. These people hardly come across as ones waist deep in paddy fields 12 hours a a day, more like relatively locally wealthy citizens with a desire to enrich themselves in the west with absolutely no authority.

 

[dowie]

I'd disagree with the arguments that these people aren't victims because they've been involved in something risky any/or were committing a (separate crime) themselves.

I mean if it were say a psycho truck driver who killed 5 roadside prostitutes and 1 lone cafe worker in some killing spree I presume people wouldn't be saying that there was only 1 victim as the other 5 were committing a criminal offence by soliciting.

Yes the victims in this migrant case were committing a criminal offence by illegally entering the UK, but someone has been criminally negligent in either shutting off some vent and suffocating them all (as happened in a previous case) or in setting the trailer to go too cold.

 

[Angilion]

I'd disagree with the arguments that these people aren't victims because they've been involved in something risky any/or were committing a (separate crime) themselves.

I mean if it were say a psycho truck driver who killed 5 roadside prostitutes and 1 lone cafe worker in some killing spree I presume people wouldn't be saying that there was only 1 victim as the other 5 were committing a criminal offence by soliciting.

Yes the victims in this migrant case were committing a criminal offence by illegally entering the UK, but someone has been criminally negligent in either shutting off some vent and suffocating them all (as happened in a previous case) or in setting the trailer to go too cold.

That's a good counter-argument. It's not exact though, because your counter-example is one of people being deliberately killed by a psycho rather than people dying doing something they know to carry a risk of dying.