When are you going fully electric?

[jpaul]

interesting .. since the demise of the ev tech thread we haven't discussed this much

Tesla on the other hand have only rolled out (publicly at least) Level two tech

OK I thought privately they were catching up, but, realistically, you can probably not simulate this tech extensively, and, need to be on the present on the roads, in the necessary kind of urban environments, for which, I have not heard of Tesla presence at the waymo levels.

***EDIT: fairly ominous article about self-drive

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/1...ng-on-self-driving-taxis-ceo-says/?comments=1

interesting, waymo have a patent for reading signs, so tesla can't do it or won't pay.

That's because those waymo folks have a patent regarding reading the signs. Software patents continue to suck.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080137908A1/en


Hopefully someone can find a way around it. Really tired of out of date speed limit DBs screwing with my tesla drives.

 

[Amp34]

Yeah, we have no idea what Tesla are doing privately, just what they say and have available now.

Their claim is that “Full Self Drive” will be released as a “feature complete” beta soon, but equally there’s debate about what that actually means.

Autopilot, Navigate on AP and Enhanced Summon are all going to be parts of FSD and none are near Level Four yet, but Tesla believe they can get the town portion (and the previously mentioned) up to scratch by the end of next year. I just don’t see that happening at all.

I can’t see that Patent stopping anything either, it’ll be a very specific way of reading signs, not reading signs in general. For example don’t BMW/Merc etc already have speed limit reading tech. They just project it on the dash rather than control speed however?

 

[Nasher]

Would you want to drive around in a beta version of a self driving car, on UK roads?

 

[Malevolence]

I wouldn't like be the one to deal with the police and the insurance companies after your self-driving car ploughs into the back of someone at the lights or T-bones someone pulling out of a junction. Actually, who's liable if it hits and kills a pedestrian/cyclist?

 

[chaparral]

For example don’t BMW/Merc etc already have speed limit reading tech. They just project it on the dash rather than control speed however?

If I remember right the new ford cars have it where you can even use it too limit the top speed of the car

My 2016 ford focus only displays the speed limit on the dash

 

[jpaul]

I can’t see that Patent stopping anything either

I'd thought there was a comment a while back in M3 thread about updated speed signs not being seen, which tied in with the patent ..because they're all hardwired

 

[Journey]

Pretty much sure at least half of the drivers on UK roads are Beta versions or complete and utter idiots/******* whatever insult fits really.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Yeah, we have no idea what Tesla are doing privately, just what they say and have available now.

Their claim is that “Full Self Drive” will be released as a “feature complete” beta soon, but equally there’s debate about what that actually means.

It was my understanding that 'feature complete' FSD was still very much going to be level 2 for a while.

 

[Amp34]

Would you want to drive around in a beta version of a self driving car, on UK roads?

And that’s the problem with Tesla’s latest advertising. “Full Self Drive” is actually “Full Self Assist”. You’re still going to have to be fully alert and in control at all time.

Tesla hope that once the “Feature Complete” beta is available they can upgrade it to Level four within a year and actually make it at least able to drive in good conditions (still not what a lot of people consider FSD to be however), but again.... way to optimistic.

 

[Nasher]

By the time you realised it's messed up and you're about to die, it might be to late to take over

 

[Amp34]

It was my understanding that 'feature complete' FSD was still very much going to be level 2 for a while.

That’s more realistic, but it isn’t what Tesla are saying. Their aim is to have robotaxi a next year...

 

[jpaul]

with a pinch of salt on my porridge https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/autopilot.html#intro etc.
not sure how they verified they were true clients quote "Autopilot Puts Owners in Danger—And Saves Them From It" - in one breathe ?

edit

My 2016 ford focus only displays the speed limit on the dash

do the signs get optically recognsised, or are their locations in a downloaded database ? that was the distinction the patent referred to.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

That’s more realistic, but it isn’t what Tesla are saying. Their aim is to have robotaxi a next year...

I don’t think they ever promised to deliver a robo taxi in the next year. All they promised was feature complete FSD. They never even promised it would be level 4, hence why I said it will likely be level 2 on initial release.

They always said it would be pending regulatory approval, you also have to factor in ‘Elon time’ tends to use a different calendar .

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Audi and BMW both definately use cameras to detect them, they are built into rear view mirror

The problem with patents is they can often be misleading. Your can't patent something really simple as a catchall for someone else doing the same.

I cant see a patent for using speed recognition to control the speed of a car to be something you would gain a patent on. I mean its just two already public technologies, cameras that detect speed signs and cruise control.
The software to do the calculations though would be fine, so the logic and calculations etc would be easy to patent.

Its where a lot of the tech patent wars come from. Someone designs a chip and or software and later it becomes a mass necessity due to a future evolution.

Not sure if anyone linked the Tesla patents, they are quite interesting, some make me laugh, like the prying tool

https://patents.justia.com/company/tesla

https://patents.justia.com/patent/10450177

 

[Amp34]

with a pinch of salt on my porridge https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/autopilot.html#intro etc.
not sure how they verified they were true clients quote "Autopilot Puts Owners in Danger—And Saves Them From It" - in one breathe ?

It is a driving assistance aid. If used correctly it should make driving safer, and that seems to be borne out.

Whether they can solve the braking issue without using long range Radar/Lidar is another question. Unfortunately without something to gauge depth cameras aren’t great at differentiating shadow from object. One of the benefits of the systems that use Lidar to complement cameras (not replace them like the article above talked about - a common fallacy used by those advocating Tesla’s way).

I don’t think they ever promised to deliver a robo taxi in the next year. All they promised was feature complete FSD. They never even promised it would be level 4, hence why I said it will likely be level 2 on initial release.

They always said it would be pending regulatory approval, you also have to factor in ‘Elon time’ tends to use a different calendar .

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/techcru...ans-to-launch-a-robotaxi-network-in-2020/amp/

”I feel very confident predicting that there will be autonomous robotaxis from Tesla next year — not in all jurisdictions because we won’t have regulatory approval everywhere” Musk said without detailing what regulations he was referring to. He added that he is confident the company will have regulatory approval somewhere next year.

He does seem to have rolled that back since however, with the latest comments being more in line with what we’ve been talking about.

I agree too about Elon time. He’s been making similar claims about cross country trips since 2015. Unfortunately they have the same problem as all the other autonomy companies. That last 1% takes 80% of the work.

 

[HoneyBadger]

tonight on my way home I saw a lady get into a brand new i3 that was frosted up (at the very least misted up) so it got me thinking, how is the heat generated for this? On an ICE the heat from the engine is used, but what does an EV use? Is like a small electric fan heater? I get the cooling side of things but came to the conclusion it must be a fan heater, in which case I assume it can get hot pretty quickly?

how long does it take to clear your windscreens?

 

[jpaul]

extensive thread on speed recognition
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...ee-speed-limit-sign-recognition.151979/page-4
Does list a lot of caveats for the tesla system which may apply to Audi/BMW too, like contradictory speed signs ie roadworks requiring user to determine appropriate one, or,
camera can't see the sign because it's raining ...I suppose that was obvious ..."Sorry officer the car didn't see the sign"

 

[b0rn2sk8]

tonight on my way home I saw a lady get into a brand new i3 that was frosted up (at the very least misted up) so it got me thinking, how is the heat generated for this? On an ICE the heat from the engine is used, but what does an EV use? Is like a small electric fan heater? I get the cooling side of things but came to the conclusion it must be a fan heater, in which case I assume it can get hot pretty quickly?

how long does it take to clear your windscreens?

Either an electric heat pump (reverse AC), or restive heater (a few cars have both), AC/heat pump is much more effective at clearing a screen compared to just blowing warm air because it also dries the air it blows. That's the same in an ICE, except the engine drives the compressor instead of an electric motor.

Heat in an EV is pretty much instant compared to an ICE, especially if they have a restive heater.

 

[mjt]

Either an electric heat pump (reverse AC), or restive heater (a few cars have both), AC/heat pump is much more effective at clearing a screen compared to just blowing warm air because it also dries the air it blows. That's the same in an ICE, except the engine drives the compressor instead of an electric motor.

Heat in an EV is pretty much instant compared to an ICE, especially if they have a restive heater.

The speed at which my i3 heats up is insane. In my Golf I always had the CC set to 20.5 or 21.5 but in the BMW it's 19, sometimes 20, but not for long. I'd keep my scarf on in the winter in the Golf, but in the i3 it just gets too hot. Sorcery!

 

[Nasher]

Only down side is electric heaters use quite a lot of energy