X670 CPU Support

[LePhuronn]

The EPYC does get a different cIOd chiplet right now.

Different size but not different design. Specifics for the I/O die were never fully disclosed, but the design is supposedly in identical quadrants with 2 memory channels and 2 chiplets connected to each. 1 of those layouts would be for the Matisse die, 4 of those would be the Rome die. Would Threadripper 3 have 2 quadrants or all 4?

 

[Bluntwrapped]

Rumour has it x670 will come with PCIe 5 and phase change cooling to keep the sucker in check.

 

[ninezerofive]

Rumour has it x670 will come with PCIe 5 and phase change cooling to keep the sucker in check.

Oh yea, PCIe 5 as well? That would be awesome.

 

[4K8KW10]

Different size but not different design. Specifics for the I/O die were never fully disclosed, but the design is supposedly in identical quadrants with 2 memory channels and 2 chiplets connected to each. 1 of those layouts would be for the Matisse die, 4 of those would be the Rome die. Would Threadripper 3 have 2 quadrants or all 4?

EPYC IOD:

https://wccftech.com/amd-2nd-gen-epyc-rome-iod-ccd-chipshots-39-billion-transistors/

Ryzen cIOD:

 

[Chrisc]

The issue with some of the current boards was that the BIOS chip did not have enough capacity to hold all of the microcode needed for the new Ryzen chips (meaning that updates were released that added new support but removed 1st generation support)

Some previous boards have been updated to "MAX" versions that have a larger capacity BIOS chip where this is no longer a problem.

Going forwards I think there will be a mix - some boards will cost save and retain the smaller BIOS chips, others will move to the larger BIOS chip by default (and retain backwards compatibility all the way back to 1st gen)

Ive never heard it explained like that, it now makes perfect sense. I always did wonder why my b450 took a while to get the updated bios compared to others.

 

[willhub]

Feel like jumping to Zen 3 will be no point if Zen 4 is coming out a year later, based on the performance of a 3700X I can't see me taking advantage or fully utilizing a 3700x enough or at a rate that yearly upgrade paths are needed.

 

[LePhuronn]

Random thought inspired by FoxEye's B550 comment...X670 comes with Zen 4, Zen 3 will see refreshed X570 boards because there's not much more vendors can actually do to create an even "bigger" version.

Consider that all of the PCB design and retimers for PCIe 4 are sorted, improved traces for faster RAM is already in place, monster VRMs for the high core counts are also covered. I've not seen anything which suggests Zen 3 is bringing major new features to warrant a new chipset either.

So would we see something akin to the X299 refreshes for Cascade Lake X? The chipset isn't different but the boards are refined further.

Moore's Law Is Dead recently suggested that Threadripper 3 boards aren't going to be ludicrously expensive because vendors have managed to reduce the number of PCIe retimers required (which was a big contributor to X570's silly prices). Could that simply be a refinement taken over to a X570 refresh, rather than a full X670? Maybe a refined PCH which doesn't need the fan?

And since B550 doesn't require retimers anyway it wouldn't instantly be obsolete on launch.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Far too early to tell, wait until next year

 

[Dave2150]

DDR5 is slower than DDR4 because of the extremely high latencies, there are no DDR5 modules currently on the market and I doubt memory producers will start releasing because of AMD only.
PCIe 4 is left unused, PCIe 5 will be the most stupid paper feature ever.

I have breaking news. When released, DDR5 will be faster than DDR4. PCI-E v5 will also be faster than PCI-E v4 also. The higher number means it’s faster.

Of course it’s hard to tell the difference outside synthetic benchmarks, though as it’s automatically included with future chipsets just be happy knowing it’s there

 

[ninezerofive]

I have breaking news. When released, DDR5 will be faster than DDR4. PCI-E v5 will also be faster than PCI-E v4 also. The higher number means it’s faster.

Of course it’s hard to tell the difference outside synthetic benchmarks, though as it’s automatically included with future chipsets just be happy knowing it’s there

DDR5 starts at 3200 Mhz, fast DDR4 will be faster than cheap DDR5

 

[4K8KW10]

DDR5 starts at 3200 Mhz, fast DDR4 will be faster than cheap DDR5

DDR5 3200 but what latencies? 25? 32?

 

[Panos]

DDR5 starts at 3200 Mhz, fast DDR4 will be faster than cheap DDR5

DDR5 3200 but what latencies? 25? 32?

https://www.wepc.com/reviews/ddr5-latest/

Clock for clock at 3200MHZ DDR5 is 36% faster than DDR4. However that is measured bandwidth. As correctly @4K8KW10 said, we need to look at latencies also.
It would be pointless to have 120ns DDR5 ram, when we get lower than 60ns with DDR4 these days.

 

[LePhuronn]

As correctly 4K8KW10 said...

That's a sign of the Apocalypse, isn't it?

 

[Panos]

That's a sign of the Apocalypse, isn't it?

When someone makes a valid argument, regardless who that person is, doesn't make the argument false and invalid.
We need to move away from the ad hominem fallacy current culture promotes if we are to discuss as intelligent humans and not dumb monkeys on trees.

 

[TrM]

https://www.wepc.com/reviews/ddr5-latest/

Clock for clock at 3200MHZ DDR5 is 36% faster than DDR4. However that is measured bandwidth. As correctly @4K8KW10 said, we need to look at latencies also.
It would be pointless to have 120ns DDR5 ram, when we get lower than 60ns with DDR4 these days.

but tin foil hat time. It does matter if ddr 5 is slower then ddr 4 at the time or if indeed a ddr 5 is 38% faster clock for clock we don’t really get a say on time scale of new hardware the companies do.

ddr 5 will soon be forced up on us no matter what it’s a whinny new buzz word for all pc hardware makers. And Samsung micron etc who make the ram chips will do all they can to get amd and intel to release sooner or later so they can put prices up again since let’s be honest ram is at good prices now competed to the inflated prices we was paying they will want that back soon and we need to move on from ddr4 sooner or later. Tin foil hat off

 

[4K8KW10]

ddr 5 will soon be forced up on us no matter what

No one forces you to buy anything.

we need to move on from ddr4 sooner or later

But not with DDR5. How about HBM2, HBM3, etc? The APUs have a screaming need for that kind of memory, anyways.

 

[TrM]

No one forces you to buy anything.



But not with DDR5. How about HBM2, HBM3, etc? The APUs have a screaming need for that kind of memory, anyways.

I did say tin foil hat!

but first point yes you are forced into something . U buy a new pc or build one yourself when intel brought ddr 4 memory controller in cpu to the market everyone upgrading to to 3xxxx and upwards are forced to buy ddr 4 ram simple as there is no way you can run a 8700k on ddr 3 in the mainstream so they are forcing a upgrade.

Point 2 public consumer products it’s really hard to change technology never mind make things more complex. For a system that is modular and can be upgraded changed etc they will only make small changes and moving from ddr type technology will not happen easily or quickly so it’s to much of a expense.

 

[Dave2150]

DDR5 starts at 3200 Mhz, fast DDR4 will be faster than cheap DDR5

That is extremely obvious.

When DDR5 releases, there will be modules available that are faster than the fastest DDR4. This is also obvious. It’s been this way through all the DDR standards.

DDR5 will also use less power than DDR4, which is another great benefit.

 

[4K8KW10]

For a system that is modular and can be upgraded changed etc they will only make small changes and moving from ddr type technology will not happen easily or quickly so it’s to much of a expense.

You don't make small changes to the APUs which don't work properly in the first place, or in other words have extremely bad performance. You must fix their performance, so it's updated to the modern requirements.

That is extremely obvious.

When DDR5 releases, there will be modules available that are faster than the fastest DDR4. This is also obvious. It’s been this way through all the DDR standards.

DDR5 will also use less power than DDR4, which is another great benefit.

I don't think that for the normal desktop PCs it really matters how much the memory modules draw, what is more important to not have such power hogs like i9-9900K, especially at 5GHz, and AMD's graphics cards with their subpar performance per watt.

 

[TrM]

You don't make small changes to the APUs which don't work properly in the first place, or in other words have extremely bad performance. You must fix their performance, so it's updated to the modern requirements.

I’m sorry but what has amd apu or intel Igpu got to do with it overall though.
Take hbm2 memory for instance the distance it has to be vs the chip is lower then ddr ram is so either it’s a whole cpu socket with ram built in or they add hbm2 to the cpu/gpu die as having slots on the motherboard were ddr 2/3.4/5 they wouldn’t be able to get the speed that hbm2 gives over ddr so no real benifit gained

second is how long have intel been offering igpu on there CPU’s? How much effort have they put into it over the years? Do u think really if gddr5 or hbm2 would be cost effective or so much of a bonus they wouldn’t of added it to the igpu already?
As for a cpu itself benifiting from faster ram well we don’t see it much currently do we ? Amd 3900x benifits to a point then falls off 3600 to 3800 MHz depending on if would give u the sweet spot anything above that and it’s not diminished returns same as the 9900k after a certain point the same thing and how would hbm2 on die or complexity reworked cpu and ram design help in any way ?