Company travel time - what's reasonable?

[Haggisman]

So they want you to work 12 days in a row without a break, with another day involving a long flight either side (and I assume be back in work on the following Monday)?

I'd be expecting significant compensation purely for that working pattern. If they're not even paying you properly for the hours you're doing then I wouldn't even consider it, I'm all for a bit of flexibility etc. where needed, but this is just taking the ****. If the work is that critical and the company really can't afford it, then maybe it should come out of one of the directors' pockets rather than yours...

They're not going to discipline you for refusing to do over a week's worth of unpaid work, or if they do then they're idiots and you'll be laughing all the way to the bank following the tribunal*

*Note, I'm not an employment lawyer or legal professional in any sense!

 

[Entropy]

This is almost certainly a case of indirect discrimination. Having a limit on maximum hours accrued is in most cases a perfectly fair policy as they are generally accrued incrementally over weeks or months. Forcing people to take them regularly is a way to minimise large blocks of leave which can have a negative impact on the business and therefore the company would have a sound business case for doing so. However in your case the company is forcing you to accrue more than allowable hours whilst performing your role as required by the needs of the business. This is almost certainly the position i would take whilst challenging with my employer.

 

[MonkeyBasher]

You should seek legal advice.

If the company travel policy is mentioned in your contract then it becomes part of the contract at the time you signed it and cannot be changed at whim.
Same also goes for the expenses policy.

You state you are contracted to work X hours a week. Anything above that is both extra and optional.

You don't work for free and you don't give up your non work time for free.
Some flexibility can be expected such as travelling at the evening/ weekend so you can work a full week. But this should all be paid or equal time off.

 

[Rids]

I think it does depend on your level of seniority, although it sounds from your post you're more of a senior employee than a management / executive grade.

No matter the situation I wouldn't be happy but if you're senior management or have promised career growth / progression off the back of it then it might be worth sucking it up.

If that isn't the case though, I think you're well within your rights to refuse.

Edit: Just to clarify my experiences

When working for a London based insurer that required travel to USA / Germany. USA flights were business class if expected to proceed directly into the office, premium economy if I'd scheduled the flights to allow me to travel out early to do some sight seeing bits. Typically I'd fly during business hours, it would count as a working day. Weekends in between were my own time. Germany flights were Economy / Premium Economy. Any air miles accrued were my own.

Now I work for an insurer based in Gibraltar / UK / Guernsey. Short flights, genuinely occur outside of business hours, but I manage my own time - if I've burned the best part of a day of my own time travelling then nobody will bat an eyelid if I take some of it back. Flights are all economy for obvious reasons.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

I suspect the OP’s contract will feature phases such as “working hours may be flexible during times of high workload” and “is expected to travel as required by the business”.

Good luck waving the Working Time Directive at HR if you work for a technology company, doubly so if they’re Yanks.

 

[dowie]

Roll forward to this year and the company has decided to change the travel policy at their own discretion (they probably have the right to do this, I dont know?). So this year they want me to fly to the USA for 2 weeks. Fly out on a Saturday, go to work on the Sunday, work Monday - Friday, potentially work the middle weekend, then work the following Monday - Friday, flying home on the Saturday (get home on the Sunday). [...]
Work are now only allowing staff to accrue a maximum of 15 hours time in lieu in any one month (and will no longer buy time off of us) so anything above this (i.e. 45 hours of my own time) will have to be written off "for the good of the company".
[...]
Appreciate any thoughts before I make a knob of my self complaining to the company. Refusing to travel is going to be very difficult, and I think the company are going to be very firm on their new rule and not want to bend

Well they can't have it both ways - if you're going to work the middle weekend then you need them to waiver the time off in lieu.

I mean travel to the states and back itself is basically going to take up the 15 hour limit they've imposed if you're just counting the flights, so if they want you to go and they also want you to work on the Sunday and potentially the middle weekend then they need to give you an assurance that they've exempt you from the policy for this trip.

Simples...

You don't refuse to go per se, you do however bounce it back to them by highlighting a problem with the trip that they need to resolve before you go. Get them to reply to you via e-mail, don't accept some verbal assurance that they'll sort out out with some extra money or time off later etc... not necessarily because they're going to deliberately screw you but people forget this stuff, verbal promises when they become hard to deliver might be remembered upon prompting later but people can try to wriggle out of them - get it in e-mail form.

Don't be afraid to say no/challenge them - it isn't you being unwilling to go it is their policy making the trip unfeasible and they need to just make a simple adjustment to it to make it happen, it's them holding up the trip not you.

 

[pepp77]

I'd be telling them where to go.

I also travel a fair bit for work and my colleagues always joke about the fact that I get paid for sleeping when on the flights

But I would not be going abroad for work without my time being covered by OT payments for the extra time I am "working" for the company even if that working time is just sitting on a plane.

As for the meal allowance, I don't get an actual meal allowance we are just told to not take the ****, but when I am not at home and therefore not able to eat/drink at home I expect to get 3 meal allowances and a selection of drink allowances, so I would claim for breakfast, lunch and dinner and probably 3 or 4 bottled drinks across the course of a day. Can easily do £75 a day in food and drink if I have to eat out (which when working abroad for a company you kinda have to). If I was forced to £15 a day it would be a no go. On my last trip to the US there was one day when I claimed for all 3 meals, loads of drinks and a selection of sweets and treats and I was on a day off out there (so didnt have to see the client as it was a sunday), so whilst I didn't claim for OT for that day I still claimed for sustenance across the day.

 

[A2Z]

I used to have a job that involved travelling all around Europe, different location every week. Occasionally would spent a day or two at the office, which was about 20 mins from home. Every single time any of us travelled, travelling to the airport, flights etc all counted as 'working' hours. Anything over 8 hours for a day was OT. Same again on the way back. There is absolutely no way they could possibly 'limit' how many hours extra we could get paid for.

Anyone working for free, even 1 hour over their contractual hours, is quite simply a mug.

 

[Trifid]

Turn the new policy around. In order to ensure you do not go over the hard limit you will need to fly out Monday mid day and return Friday, arriving back in the UK no later then 4pm. Due to extra time worked during the week it will not be possible to work the weekend. Get everyone going to sign it.