URGENT DUE TO TIME LIMITED ONLINE OFFER: 6TB NAS Drives vs 10TB NAS drives Prices?

[Snowdragonfrog]

X are selling 6TB WD RED's for £123 each. It is a time limited offer and I do not know when it will end, so please reply fast, thanks.

I need at least 20TB of usable space after RAID 5.

I can get 25% off from WD Store and 1 year additional warranty.

I was planning on getting 3x 10TB WD RED from the WD store at £319 - 25% - = £240 per drive.
So 3 x 240= £720 for 20TB of usable space after RAID 5.

I could get 6x 6TB WD RED's from X for £123 each = £738 for 30TB of usable space which is only £20 more for 10TB more space BUT no additional 1 year warranty.

If I go the X route I will have to buy a bigger Synology enclosure, so a 6 bay costing £780.

Will 6x6TB drives consume a lot more electricity than 3x10TB?

Will 6x6 produce a lot more noise than 3x10?

What should I do?

 

[EssexBoy]

Get the 10tb external mybooks\elements when on offer and take out the white label drives which are essentially red's

 

[Snowdragonfrog]

Get the 10tb external mybooks\elements when on offer and take out the white label drives which are essentially red's

They are not RED's nor are they like RED's. I spent months researching shucking and various other options.
No company would put expensive drives in an enclosure and sell it for cheaper than the original expensive drive's price.

 

[EssexBoy]

Well you have not researched enough i have 30+ of them drives and i know others that have them also go ahead and pay your wd tax

 

[Space Monkey]

@Snowdragonfrog

Please remove all references to other retailers & their prices as this forum is run by and paid for by Overclockers UK Retailer, competitors aren't allowed.

By all means mention the products and your budget but direct competitor info isn't allowed, thanks.

 

[Snowdragonfrog]

Well you have not researched enough i have 30+ of them drives and i know others that have them also go ahead and pay your wd tax

Proof or it never happened.

 

[RandomMonkeH]

The elements may well be WD Red or HGST in 8+ sizes -but I'm not entirely convinced by the shucking thing.

Firstly you get 1 year less warranty right out the gate, and you have to keep all the bits and reassemble it should you claim, and risk warranty void if damage it (different in the U.S where you can just send back the drive). They also have 3.2 pin 3 issue, so if your controller doesn't support it, you have got to mess around with an adapter cable or tape.

In the smaller sizes they will be Blue/Green drives, only in the larger sizes might they be HGST/RED - the paranoid part of me also wonders if the white label drives are "binned" or remanufactured units, due to the nature of the application.

Seems like a lot of hassle for a lottery. I was tempted on black Friday when the 8TB elements were down to £110 - but in the end I just bought the bare drives, so at least I know what I'm getting.

 

[Snowdragonfrog]

The elements may well be WD Red or HGST in 8+ sizes -but I'm not entirely convinced by the shucking thing.

Firstly you get 1 year less warranty right out the gate, and you have to keep all the bits and reassemble it should you claim, and risk warranty void if damage it (different in the U.S where you can just send back the drive). They also have 3.2 pin 3 issue, so if your controller doesn't support it, you have got to mess around with an adapter cable or tape.

In the smaller sizes they will be Blue/Green drives, only in the larger sizes might they be HGST/RED - the paranoid part of me also wonders if the white label drives are "binned" or remanufactured units, due to the nature of the application.

Seems like a lot of hassle for a lottery. I was tempted on black Friday when the 8TB elements were down to £110 - but in the end I just bought the bare drives, so at least I know what I'm getting.

Exactly.
Also this guy shucked some drives and this is what he wrote:

Posted August 24
Just a small update.
So far two of the 8TB drives have failed after being used in a NAS for about 8 months. Both times, I just sent the shucked drive itself to WD for an RMA and they sent back a completely new enclosure w/drive in the box. If you run them in a raid 6 or raidz2/3 configuration, then you are probably safe as they will fail. Just have a spare on hand and prepare to wait about 2 work weeks for the RMA process to complete. I'm in the south east US and the RMA center is in California so the turn around isn't the quickest.

 

[skyripper]

Why are you thinking of using drives that size in RAID5?
Google Raid5 and URE

Also "Proof or it never happened." are you twelve years old?
The accepted practice on this forum is to demand hovis pics.

 

[Snowdragonfrog]

Why are you thinking of using drives that size in RAID5?
Google Raid5 and URE

Also "Proof or it never happened." are you twelve years old?
The accepted practice on this forum is to demand hovis pics.

What RAID should I use then?
Casey Neistat seems to have been using what I guess are RAID 5 Thunderbolt NAS's for years.

 

[RandomMonkeH]

Why are you thinking of using drives that size in RAID5?
Google Raid5 and URE
.

This is also a very good point. Especially given the RED are not enterprise class in that regard.

 

[Snowdragonfrog]

Why are you thinking of using drives that size in RAID5?
Google Raid5 and URE

Also "Proof or it never happened." are you twelve years old?
The accepted practice on this forum is to demand hovis pics.

I already did research into this. Spoke to Synology about it and this is what they said (live chat transcript extract):

ME
I haven't read all of this site and only the conclusion, but here is this: https://www.digistor.com.au/the-latest/Whether-RAID-5-is-still-safe-in-2019/
And the conclusion reads: In conclusion, for consumer faced SATA drives, the rebuilding successful rate is very low even for 4 bay SATA 5 array with 1TB disks. It’s nearly impossible to guarantee a successful rebuilding with this type of disk because of its too high URE. Another alarming fact about URE is: it has no correlation to the drive’s age.
Can unraid not be used with a synology? I'm new to all this and have no idea. Like starting from ground zero with regards to knowledge about NAS. I just want something simple that I plug in and it works.

Synology 09:50:48 am
In regards to drives failing, when any RAID encounters a disk failure there is increased pressure on the remaining drives so in theory their statement could be applied to any scenario with a RAID array and a failing disk. RAID 6 and 10 offer 2x disk failure redundancy compared to 1x in RAID 5. When they say another drive is "likely to fail", that is where I'd disagree. There is always a chance it could happen but "likely to" isn't something I'd say based on personal and professional experience.
UNRAID cannot be installed on a Synology NAS as UNRAID is an operating system. We use our own operating system called DSM (DiskStation Manager).

ME 09:52:15 am
ohh (sorry I'm learning here). OK. Sounds good. So you think it's unlikely one of the 10TB drives would fail during a rebuild?
Can I use a Synology NAS on both Apple OS and Windows?
Also what about the article?

Synology 10:00:41 am
I wouldn't state unlikely or likely to fail during a rebuild as its dependent on different factors. Typically, if you're using large HDDs you'll want extra redundancy due the amount of data being housed as RAID arrays take longer to rebuild the more data that is stored on them. The longer a rebuild takes, the increased chance another HDD could fail.

As I mentioned earlier it comes down to your usage scenario, requirements and as well as speed & performance vs reliability & data redundancy/fault protection.
A Synology NAS is compatible with Apple MacOS, Windows and Linux. It can be accessed from any device or mobile/tablet within your local network once it is connected to the router.

 

[skyripper]

This is also a very good point. Especially given the RED are not enterprise class in that regard.

Since someone is discussing shucking drives, this doesnt sound like an Enterprise problem looking for a storage solution.

 

[Snowdragonfrog]

Since someone is discussing shucking drives, this doesnt sound like an Enterprise problem looking for a storage solution.

I do not want to shuck drives.That was someone else that wrote that. My data is mission critical. But I am only one person starting a YouTube channel. So I do not have enterprise amounts of money.

 

[RandomMonkeH]

What RAID should I use then?
Casey Neistat seems to have been using what I guess are RAID 5 Thunderbolt NAS's for years.

You could consider RAID 6 or RAID 10, or frankly with the size of disks now I'd be tempted just to do avoid all the hassle and do a straight mirror - most of the home NAS usage requirements are around convenient and reliable bulk storage rather than speed.

I can't say I would put any faith in anything Neistat has to say on any topic other than how to be a **** - but that's just personal bias...

 

[Snowdragonfrog]

You could consider RAID 6 or RAID 10, or frankly with the size of disks now I'd be tempted just to do avoid all the hassle and do a straight mirror - most of the home NAS usage requirements are around convenient and reliable bulk storage rather than speed.

I can't say I would put any faith in anything Neistat has to say on any topic other than how to be a **** - but that's just personal bias...

Mirror means 2x the drives? 2x the cost..... £1500 on just drives alone not even for the WD Elements backup drives I would need, nor the NAS enclosure.

What do you mean about Casey?

 

[RandomMonkeH]

Since someone is discussing shucking drives, this doesnt sound like an Enterprise problem looking for a storage solution.

Enterprise drives have a better URE which elevates some of the concern with RAID 5.
Ironically if the shucked drives are actually HGST they potentially would be "better" than the WD RED in that regard.

 

[skyripper]

Ok. Your use-case wasnt clear earlier. So you're not talking multi-user, you're not talking extremely fast random-access, and you're only talking mission-critical in terms of "If I lose a file, I need to get from backup" not "I need live failover on error".

So you could get 3x 10TB for a RAID5, or you could get 4x 10TB for a RAID 1+0.

What are you going to do for backup, because RAID, ZFS etc. are only there to deal with hardware failure, not for human error, file corruption, virus etc.

 

[Snowdragonfrog]

Ok. Your use-case wasnt clear earlier. So you're not talking multi-user, you're not talking extremely fast random-access, and you're only talking mission-critical in terms of "If I lose a file, I need to get from backup" not "I need live failover on error".

So you could get 3x 10TB for a RAID5, or you could get 4x 10TB for a RAID 1+0.

What are you going to do for backup, because RAID, ZFS etc. are only there to deal with hardware failure, not for human error, file corruption, virus etc.

So my use case is I am starting a YouTube channel and I have 5 years of footage.
I do not want to lose a single video or file, hence mission critical.
I am the only user.

Original video copied to SSD for editing. No longer need the drive to be powered once the video/associated files have transferred.
Video is edited on SSD and uploaded to youtube.
Edited video is transferred to NAS.
Original copied files on SSD are deleted.

Once videos have been edited, it's unlikely I will need that video again so it doesn't have to stay on a always on NAS... but then in that case I wouldn't need a NAS at all, but then a computer case has limited drive bays and large hard drives are loud and it's not really an ideal solution to just use a WD RED in a PC as a desktop drive (non OS data only).
All edited final videos that are uploaded to youtube I also want a copy of on the NAS.

For backup I thought of using Hyper Drive that is built into synology nas's (no idea how it works) and WD Elements and somehow getting the NAS to backup correctly to each drive.
I would apparently have to manually plug the WD Elements into the NAS to perform the backup each time I did it for each backup drive.

I would have to do that daily. WD Elements would always be left unplugged and in a different room.

I have no offsite location. So best I can do is NAS + WD Elements for backup. Google drive is super costly at 20TB+.

Do you know of a better backup solution?

Am i going about all of this in the wrong way?

 

[skyripper]

I'd have a external drive for local backups, and a cloud backup service for safety. I can't tell you which, because I havent done the research.
RAID 5 [3 drives] or RAID0+1 [4 drives] is your local storage, a regular external drive for your daily / weekly backup schedule, and an SSD is your scratch/working drive.
With cloud for "Oh **** my studio caught fire"