How do religious people explain child mortality?

[SexyGreyFox]

You mean you can't tell the difference as to why your god kills babies & toddlers who never even get a chance to grow up

You don't want to accept my answer from when I was a normal Church of England Christian before becoming Atheist.
God is not the Lord of this World, Satan is.
God has no power here but only in Heaven and if you follow him you will end up there.
All the children that have died will be in the imaginary Heaven.

 

[Threepwood]

Let's take God out of the equation, shall we?

Some people believe humans were created by aliens.

You can't take god out of the equation, even if you move onto aliens, because it's then turtles all the way down wondering where did the alien life come from, untill you get back to God vs spontaneous emergence of life. Then you get back to... well maybe God created the soil that life came from, and then you get back to how do you know that wasn't an alien and its all in a lab. Then morpious shows up and offers you red or blue pills... and you start wondering who the heck created the entity that created the matrix, and who created them! Arrrrrrg! Turtles, turtles everywhere!

 

[Usher]

So there is no scientific case study which disproves creation by an unknown third entity?

In order for science to disprove something it has to be first offered up as proof, so where is your proof?

Let's take God out of the equation, shall we?

A good idea, now we are getting somewhere

Some people believe humans were created by aliens.

Some people believe the most bizarre things, I've tried in vain to point it out

Does science disprove that creation of humans by any third entity is possible? You said it has been disproved, so presumably there has been a study with a conclusion that it isn't possible for any third entity to have created biological life?

Once again the burden of proof is on those who make bizarre claims,


What if humans manage to create a fully functioning animal from scratch in years to come? What then? Like 3D printing a cow or something.

Then is would be a proven fact, the evidence would be there to see, but where is the evidence for creation by an unknown entity/god?

I guess since it's not possible that will never happen? But who has said it's not possible, ever? Which scientific study has said that?

What if humans manage to grow an entire, living animal from just DNA and non-living matter? What then?

 

[Threepwood]

It's tricky Usher, because 'scientific proof' is a misnomer in the first place, Foxeye knows this and is playing with you.

 

[FoxEye]

You can't take god out of the equation, even if you move onto aliens, because it's then turtles all the way down wondering where did the alien life come from, untill you get back to God vs spontaneous emergence of life. Then you get back to... well maybe God created the soil that life came from, and then you get back to how do you know that wasn't an alien and its all in a lab. Then morpious shows up and offers you red or blue pills... and you start wondering who the heck created the entity that created the matrix, and who created them! Arrrrrrg! Turtles, turtles everywhere!

But if we can concieve of a time when humans might be able to create living organisms from templates (DNA, base materials), then we must necessarily not be able to discount that this has already happened.

Unless instead we can prove that there is no other life in the universe, or that no such life could have visited Earth.

You see where I'm going with this?

 

[Threepwood]

You see where I'm going with this?

Yes ofc, and given enough time I'm pretty sure that creating life like that will happen. Fwiw all this is one of the reasons I'm for protecting the planet as a nice eco system to be able to survive in, I want to see the human race get to all those points of technological singularity. It's a big universe out there, if we kill ourselves before we become an off planet civilization (however that/we may be) we would be doing ourselves an injustice.

Nothing can be scientifically proven, it all more a matter of perspective, or rather presumed perspective. "I think therefore I am" is quickly countered with "You think you think you are". Sorry, turtles.

 

[neocon]

Maybe there aren't any "religious" folk on GD. Probably see the title and think I'm not getting into the argument.

 

[Threepwood]

Maybe there aren't any "religious" folk on GD. Probably see the title and think I'm not getting into the argument.

Random thought, but, maybe a computer forum is not the best place to ask?

 

[R.P.L]

This same debate happened recently in another thread here, and the answer is still the same: no one has disproved that there is a god, and no one probably ever will. Anyone who thinks that science has done that is wrong. Disproved that things happened as the Bible says, sure. People who swear blind one way or the other on this are all as mistaken as each other.
I don't know whether there was a god, creator, or whatever, exactly the same as everyone else. One related thing that is interesting is simulation theory, because I think it originates from the same basic instinct to try to explain what is 'outside of' our reality. It's like theism for people who think they're too clever for theism.

 

[Sutters]

This same debate happened recently in another thread here, and the answer is still the same: no one has disproved that there is a god, and no one probably ever will. Anyone who thinks that science has done that is wrong. Disproved that things happened as the Bible says, sure. People who swear blind one way or the other on this are all as mistaken as each other.
I don't know whether there was a god, creator, or whatever, exactly the same as everyone else. One related thing that is interesting is simulation theory, because I think it originates from the same basic instinct to try to explain what is 'outside of' our reality. It's like theism for people who think they're too clever for theism.

doesn't science in a way prove there must be a creator since something cannot be created out of nothing ?

 

[jmc007]

Yep. "Holes in time" basically promotes a creator and not a lot else.

doesn't science in a way prove there must be a creator since something cannot be created out of nothing ?

"Ye are Gods" Psalm 82:6

 

[R.P.L]

doesn't science in a way prove there must be a creator since something cannot be created out of nothing ?

That would assume that whatever state existed before the big bang followed the same laws that we've observed since, so I think it's a stretch to draw that conclusion.

 

[FoxEye]

That would assume that whatever state existed before the big bang followed the same laws that we've observed since, so I think it's a stretch to draw that conclusion.

Either way, you have to get your head around one of two possibilities

That something arose out of nothing
That something (let's say energy) has always existed. Is essentially timeless, or beyond/outside of time.

I struggle with that, especially the second part.

 

[R.P.L]

Either way, you have to get your head around one of two possibilities

That something arose out of nothing
That something (let's say energy) has always existed. Is essentially timeless, or beyond/outside of time.

I struggle with that, especially the second part.

I don't bother - I just accept that I don't know.

 

[Sutters]

its seems a more logical argument to me that a creator exists outside of space and time, than simply atoms formed out of nothing.

 

[FoxEye]

its seems a more logical argument to me that a creator exists outside of space and time, than simply atoms formed out of nothing.

That still leaves you with a Creator that formed out of nothing, or a Creator that always existed.

And how does anything always exist?

How can you have something that always was? Something that never had a beginning?

So yeah, either way it's impossible to explain the origin of energy or matter. Matter can come from energy, so they say, but where do get the energy... It's all well beyond me.

 

[Threepwood]

All time exists all the time. It's an eternal present now.

Watch this

Or if youtube is being funny, here is the direct link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0ztlIAYTCU

Just wait till they get onto explaining how an 8D shape is the 3D world... or rather, how every matter point of the 3d world is part of that 8D shape or quasi crystal code xD

 

[Eliot]

Yes, Christian.

So hold on,

You believe in a Christian god but not in creationism? Which is surely not in line with what we are told the Christian God would have you believe?
Sounds to me like moving the goalposts into the realms of possibility after aspects of the original story look more unlikely overtime....

 

[SexyGreyFox]

So hold on,

You believe in a Christian god but not in creationism? Which is surely not in line with what we are told the Christian God would have you believe?
Sounds to me like moving the goalposts into the realms of possibility after aspects of the original story look more unlikely overtime....

Just because he believes in a God it doesn't mean he is a practicing Christian or practicing anything.
It is quite common to take any religion and alter things to make it work for you.
My Mum was a Christian but there around 5 people she couldn't forgive and she said God was OK with that (for those that don't know the Christian religion revolves around Forgiveness).

 

[dirtychinchilla]

This is like old GD

The burden of proof for a god lies with those who believe it, because it's made up!