Etiquette for Lycra Clad Nutters?

[shadow_boxer]

Get a few angry fists being waved at me every now again in the rear view mirror when passing them in the C63. Try to be gentle as possible on the throttle but you've still got to pass them in a timely fashion which means a screaming M156 engine especially on nation speed limit roads!! Passing horses is another annoyance but them even more time and a wider birth.

 

[MusicalChris]

As a cyclist i do not mind cars not giving me the full clearence distance as long as they are sensible and give me enough room/don't go past a full speed etc. I am always very aware of cars around me and will give them space and time if i think they have not seen me/do not seem to care i am on the road. I cycle every day to work and most of the time have no issues, just some people at junctions don't seem to look for long enough or are not aware of blind spots in their A pillar.

 

[Nasher]

Get a few angry fists being waved at me every now again in the rear view mirror when passing them in the C63. Try to be gentle as possible on the throttle but you've still got to pass them in a timely fashion which means a screaming M156 engine especially on nation speed limit roads!! Passing horses is another annoyance but them even more time and a wider birth.

Fit a cone intake for more unsilenced engine noise

 

[Rroff]

I thought you had webcams on your cars, so how did the cyclist appear to you ? do you open up bends -

the cyclist didn't have a fluoro top ? - most, with children, are a bit more responsible;
it's mundane, but, changing from a sash to a top (treasured possession) noticeably changed driver behaviour.

I do have a dashcam but as I was able to slow down to their speed within a reasonable margin of safety and the lens tends to flatten out the corner it doesn't really show anything interesting - my heart was in my mouth a bit though with the combination of not expecting them to be there going that slowly, seeing the small head of a toddler poking up above the bike child carrier and the realisation that even a moments inattention or being distracted by something else could have completely changed the outcome even though not necessarily through any fault of my own. Then my own knowledge of how people usually drive through there which again isn't conveyed by the dashcam.

A high viz top certainly makes a huge difference - I was always a bit dismissive of them when I used to cycle to work years ago - but driving busy roads these days I'm quite surprised by how much of a difference it makes in me noticing cyclists - it really is a huge difference in how quickly my mind separates them out from the background.

I cycled 40 miles a day a few years back for a commute (and cycled for leisure too) and never had any real issues with other road users. I put that down to the fact that I treated myself as a vulnerable road user and rode as such. I had a proper road bike, all the gear and wasn't slow, but appreciated other road users saw me as an obstacle and so I was always conscious of what was going on around me so I didn't impede anyone else unless absolutely necessary. It's not difficult to anticipate situations and still make progress. Something all road users could do with learning IMO.

I notice most cyclists I come across don't even look behind them whilst I'm waiting for a safe opportunity to pass. Nobody seems to be looking anywhere but where they're going these days which is poor form, then add a huge chip on their shoulder becasue they've seen road rage on the internet and some form of entitlement and you get most other road users these days. Self-important morons no matter what form of transport they use.

The roads are just a chore these days. If we just drove to the conditions, only as fast as we can see and anticipated our surroundings it would be greatly improved. Basics of learning to drive essentially, but it's too much to ask for most.

Some roads are better for it than others - I drive regularly ~10 miles of the A30 through very mixed types of roads and personally I think cycling a long that stretch is just suicidal no matter the ideals - won't lie I'm becoming somewhat anti-cyclist of late but I also have concerns that the reality is between roads being busier than ever, driving standards being generally poorer than ever there are some roads where cyclists just shouldn't be - especially if their ideals are towards saving the environment, etc. because the number of vehicles they hold up travelling at below speeds where they get efficient MPG they might as well not bother.

I have a screamer pipe on my car so they really love that.

I drive a V6 truck which makes a fair bit of engine/exhaust noise but the one that seems to annoy people - as it is an automatic it often pre-emptively drops down a gear of its own accord and if I'm in that situation where I'm slowing down but then the situation changes the gear dump results in a meaty engine howl - a few times it has resulted in people thinking I'm aggressively revving the engine at them in displeasure and gives cyclists, etc. the impression I'm going faster/driving more aggressively than I am (which is part of why I'm becoming a touch anti-cyclist of late due to the attitudes from a minority).

 

[Nasher]

Driving through town (busy road which runs alongside a park) I've had a number just launch out in to the road without looking in my direction at all. Out of the park, over the pavement, straight out in to the road and across the front of me at full pelt.

If I ever can't stop in time I won't swerve in to oncoming traffic to avoid them, they are going under the wheels. **** risking my own health.

 

[Bear]

Some roads are better for it than others - I drive regularly ~10 miles of the A30 through very mixed types of roads and personally I think cycling a long that stretch is just suicidal no matter the ideals - won't lie I'm becoming somewhat anti-cyclist of late but I also have concerns that the reality is between roads being busier than ever, driving standards being generally poorer than ever there are some roads where cyclists just shouldn't be - especially if their ideals are towards saving the environment, etc. because the number of vehicles they hold up travelling at below speeds where they get efficient MPG they might as well not bother.

So by your own admission, driving standards observed by yourself are poorer than ever and roads are busier than ever but the hate is on the cyclist and not on the drivers that seemingly can’t stick to the speed limits or drive with due consideration?

Also the efficient MPG argument is guff as most drivers are held up by other motor vehicles. There may be certain circumstances where a bicycle is an inconvenience but in general it’s other motorists that are the cause of congestion which could be improved if the drivers that get in their car to do a couple miles which could be walked kept off the road.

Many cyclists are drivers too. There are supposed to be 1.3m people who cycle 3 times a week in the UK. Of course not all of them will own cars but imagine all those extra people in cars 3 times a week and I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to help congestion

 

[Bear]

Driving through town (busy road which runs alongside a park) I've had a number just launch out in to the road without looking in my direction at all. Out of the park, over the pavement, straight out in to the road and across the front of me at full pelt.

If I ever can't stop in time I won't swerve in to oncoming traffic to avoid them, they are going under the wheels. **** risking my own health.

I don’t think anyone in their right mind would argue with you on that. I would rather run over the cyclist than go head on with another car after all the cyclist was the one with the death wish in that example

 

[Rroff]

Funny how our perceptions and actual events can be different - I'd have sworn visibility was around 150m at that point (not a factor) but looking at the video it wasn't so bad through that bit and could see around half a mile or so at that point but my memory was of the whole journey being misty. Also only 1 of the adults (the one at the back of the line) had a child on the back of the bike my memory was of both adults having a child on the back.



Something high viz on the back of that carrier would have made a huge difference to their safety though and probably reversing the order so the kid in the carrier was upfront would have been safer for the children?

So by your own admission, driving standards observed by yourself are poorer than ever and roads are busier than ever but the hate is on the cyclist and not on the drivers that seemingly can’t stick to the speed limits or drive with due consideration?

Also the efficient MPG argument is guff as most drivers are held up by other motor vehicles. There may be certain circumstances where a bicycle is an inconvenience but in general it’s other motorists that are the cause of congestion which could be improved if the drivers that get in their car to do a couple miles which could be walked kept off the road.

Many cyclists are drivers too. There are supposed to be 1.3m people who cycle 3 times a week in the UK. Of course not all of them will own cars but imagine all those extra people in cars 3 times a week and I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to help congestion

I'm not sparing poor drivers any criticism but in an accident between a bad driver and a good cyclist that is moot and the reality is roads are getting ever busier and that won't change.

At least on the roads I do the cyclists are hugely increasing emissions as they add to hold ups that wouldn't otherwise be there - at busier times often a trail of cars behind them at 10 MPH until they can get past and then people stepping on it to get past cleanly.

 

[Bear]

In the above instance, it would have been best if the bloke was the last rider and had a flashing rear light and the mother was leading. Whenever I’m out on my bicycle I always have my lights on in daylight. I don’t ride in the dark.

 

[Rroff]

Many cyclists are drivers too. There are supposed to be 1.3m people who cycle 3 times a week in the UK. Of course not all of them will own cars but imagine all those extra people in cars 3 times a week and I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to help congestion

Part of my annoyance is that more isn't being more done to give cyclists options - fact is there are more cyclists and more motorists than ever - I don't know the ins and outs of land ownership and use, etc. and it would risk being somewhat totalitarian but for instance there seems to be loads of unused land bordering this road including disused (inaccessible) pathways that are part of a big nearby estate that would provide a cycle path (and shorter distance) if opened up so that cyclists wouldn't have to mix it up on the main road.

EDIT: Even some (relatively) minor modification to the verge would also provide for a cycleway albeit might encroach slightly on some farm land.

Driving through town (busy road which runs alongside a park) I've had a number just launch out in to the road without looking in my direction at all. Out of the park, over the pavement, straight out in to the road and across the front of me at full pelt.

If I ever can't stop in time I won't swerve in to oncoming traffic to avoid them, they are going under the wheels. **** risking my own health.

This nearly caused me to fail my driving test - fortunately the examiner was pragmatic - I had someone on a bike come flying out of an alley between high walls/buildings and only avoided them by pulling onto the other side of the road without having enough time to fully check it was clear and crossing a solid white line - but the alternative was putting someone in hospital and definitely failing. Me driving + cyclists don't exactly have a smooth history :s

 

[jpaul]

yes - I'd be buying the small child something reflective, probably of equal benefit as its helmet;
their submissive road positioning too, better off rolling, further out, where the car tyres clean the road ... equally there's no point presenting the opportunity to a car of trying an overtake without crossing to the other side of the road; there's a category of driver who think it's a cardinal sin crossing a (dashed) white line.

 

[Rroff]

yes - I'd be buying the small child something reflective, probably of equal benefit as its helmet;
their submissive road positioning too, better off rolling, further out, where the car tyres clean the road ... equally there's no point presenting the opportunity to a car of trying an overtake without crossing to the other side of the road; there's a category of driver who think it's a cardinal sin crossing a (dashed) white line.

Yeah to be fair I would have definitely seen them much more clearly and much earlier if they'd taken up a position further out - and not like I could have overtaken them any different as it was I had to wait for traffic to clear the other way and being a narrow road I'd have to pull most of the way into the other lane to give them space anyhow and it would encourage smaller vehicles to try and squeeze past.

This was my first moment of seeing them - though it isn't a proper blind bend the camera flattens it out a bit and visibility is limited by the sides.



And as the images make it look like the road was empty (being new years day it was quieter than normal) there was actually traffic coming the other way

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Part of my annoyance is that more isn't being more done to give cyclists options - fact is there are more cyclists and more motorists than ever - I don't know the ins and outs of land ownership and use, etc. and it would risk being somewhat totalitarian but for instance there seems to be loads of unused land bordering this road including disused (inaccessible) pathways that are part of a big nearby estate that would provide a cycle path (and shorter distance) if opened up so that cyclists wouldn't have to mix it up on the main road.

EDIT: Even some (relatively) minor modification to the verge would also provide for a cycleway albeit might encroach slightly on some farm land.



This nearly caused me to fail my driving test - fortunately the examiner was pragmatic - I had someone on a bike come flying out of an alley between high walls/buildings and only avoided them by pulling onto the other side of the road without having enough time to fully check it was clear and crossing a solid white line - but the alternative was putting someone in hospital and definitely failing. Me driving + cyclists don't exactly have a smooth history :s

One of my mates had similar on his test. A kid cycled from one side of the pavement to the other, down a road that was double parked on both sides so very hard to see in advance.
It was mid summer and the window was partly down, my mate shouted at the kid he was on his test the "slightly mischevious little devil"
The examiner failed him due to the statement, he said as my mate had performed a perfect emergency stop, had been driving sensibly and well considering the road hazards he would have immediately passed him had he not shouted at the kid, but he couldn't accept it was acceptable behaviour and thought his temper could get the worst of him so needed some more time before he was passed. My mate wasn't best pleased

 

[Rroff]

One of my mates had similar on his test. A kid cycled from one side of the pavement to the other, down a road that was double parked on both sides so very hard to see in advance.
It was mid summer and the window was partly down, my mate shouted at the kid he was on his test the "slightly mischevious little devil"
The examiner failed him due to the statement, he said as my mate had performed a perfect emergency stop, had been driving sensibly and well considering the road hazards he would have immediately passed him had he not shouted at the kid, but he couldn't accept it was acceptable behaviour and thought his temper could get the worst of him so needed some more time before he was passed. My mate wasn't best pleased

Was the opposite way around for me - I didn't even react verbally, etc. as my attention was 100% on avoiding the cyclist - my examiner proper swore and shouted at him.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Yeah to be fair I would have definitely seen them much more clearly and much earlier if they'd taken up a position further out - and not like I could have overtaken them any different as it was I had to wait for traffic to clear the other way and being a narrow road I'd have to pull most of the way into the other lane to give them space anyhow and it would encourage smaller vehicles to try and squeeze past.

This was my first moment of seeing them



And as the images make it look like the road was empty (being new years day it was quieter than normal) there was actually traffic coming the other way

They were certainly badly placed in general, but particularly for a left turn. As you say plenty would try to squeeze through there, I know years ago that was normal still to pass them.

Is that a pavement on the other side? To me we should be making the pavements optional for cyclists in this sort of scenario. Have to be riden at walking speed, but for dangerous roads where a pavement exists i would open them up for shared usage personally.

 

[Rroff]

They were certainly badly placed in general, but particularly for a left turn. As you say plenty would try to squeeze through there, I know years ago that was normal still to pass them.

Is that a pavement on the other side? To me we should be making the pavements optional for cyclists in this sort of scenario. Have to be riden at walking speed, but for dangerous roads where a pavement exists i would open them up for shared usage personally.

Yeah there is a pavement there but it is pretty rubbish for cycling on - not great surface and quite narrow and you get lorries thundering through close up against the pavement as the road is narrow and narrows even more in a couple of bits.

TBH my biggest concern in all of this though is that from driving that road regularly I know you get massive lorries thundering through there at speeds in excess of the speed limit never mind what is appropriate for the conditions and if it had been one of those lorries in my position a very high chance there would have been a family wiped out on the news and even then I would have been going faster around that corner if it wasn't for the fact that just before it someone tends to park sticking out into the road so I always approach that cautiously.

EDIT: Image from googlemaps - the white car is often parked encroaching slightly on the road



It actually isn't that bad a corner as such but they had taken up such a submissive position they were only visible well into the corner - I hadn't really realised how much of a factor that was until this thread.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Yeah there is a pavement there but it is pretty rubbish for cycling on - not great surface and quite narrow and you get lorries thundering through close up against the pavement as the road is narrow and narrows even more in a couple of bits.

TBH my biggest concern in all of this though is that from driving that road regularly I know you get massive lorries thundering through there at speeds in excess of the speed limit never mind what is appropriate for the conditions and if it had been one of those lorries in my position a very high chance there would have been a family wiped out on the news and even then I would have been going faster around that corner if it wasn't for the fact that just before it someone tends to park sticking out into the road so I always approach that cautiously.

I still have thoughts wondering how I survived as a kid at times. I lived just off Felixstowe road in Ipswich, before the A14 was completely bypassed and the orwell bridge didnt exist, most of the lorries from the port of felixstowe drove down that road. How we cycled it and didnt get squashed I cant figure out.

If we took road safety properly seriously in this country we would do more to make corners like that far safer. If that hedge was cut to similar height to the nearby ones then most people would see them far easier.

 

[jpaul]

I'd say it's a bit of a problem that the driver coming in the other direction was already taking evasive action, and pulling over to the kerb, because he thought you might overtake , as he was passing them.

you could have opened the bend up too ? especially if you know the road, you would have seen them much earlier.

 

[Rroff]

you could have opened the bend up too ? especially if you know the road, you would have seen them much earlier.

Not very easy there with the combination of other factors and driving a pickup - doesn't give much margin if you have faster/bigger traffic coming the other way.

If we took road safety properly seriously in this country we would do more to make corners like that far safer. If that hedge was cut to similar height to the nearby ones then most people would see them far easier.

Yeah if the side was cut to that of the other it would have been a complete non-event. Further back they have actually started cutting the sides back within the last few days - I was surprised how much it opened up the road.

 

[tom_nieto]

Big lights, high vis and assuming people haven't seen you is the way forward on a bike. It's really difficult to compromise between taking a dominant position in the road so people don't squeeze through and not stopping people overtaking.

A loud exhaust/engine is welcome when I'm on my bike as I know where you are! I also like loud and noisy engines so it's a win/win.