Etiquette for Lycra Clad Nutters?

[Rroff]

Big lights, high vis and assuming people haven't seen you is the way forward on a bike. It's really difficult to compromise between taking a dominant position in the road so people don't squeeze through and not stopping people overtaking.

Personally as I drive a fairly large pickup I'd rather cyclists did take up a more dominant position as I'm not going to be overtaking without a good clear bit of road anyhow - definitely not going to try and squeeze past and it would make a huge difference to visibility on some of the corners on the roads I regularly drive. In this case if they'd have been even a foot further out rather than squeezed right up against the side as they were in the corner I'd have seen them comfortably early.

EDIT: High viz though the difference is massive - comparing spots I often encounter cyclists there can be as much as 2-3 seconds difference in reacting to them which is a big margin between life and death.

 

[Bear]

Personally as I drive a fairly large pickup I'd rather cyclists did take up a more dominant position as I'm not going to be overtaking without a good clear bit of road anyhow - definitely not going to try and squeeze past and it would make a huge difference to visibility on some of the corners on the roads I regularly drive. In this case if they'd have been even a foot further out rather than squeezed right up against the side as they were in the corner I'd have seen them comfortably early.

EDIT: High viz though the difference is massive - comparing spots I often encounter cyclists there can be as much as 2-3 seconds difference in reacting to them which is a big margin between life and death.

Problem is you are quite a reasonable person, so you would prefer cyclist take a dominant position for safety. Other drivers hate cyclist for doing exactly that, supposedly hogging the road blocking traffic. They are hated for going too slow by some and hated for going too fast by others. Hated for riding on the road and hated for riding on the pavements. Hated for not having lights, hated for flashing lights etc etc.

 

[almoststew1990]

My colleague is a avid cyclist and he has a camera mounted to bike. He records drivers that do close passes (say about half a metre) and sends it to the police. From the videos he sends around the office, I will say that when you put your foot down a bit to pass someone, it is much much louder and more aggressive feeling than you think it is, especially with tyre roar on chunky tyres. It's quiet before the overtake as everyone is doing 20mph behind them and then it isn't!

However this guy also has quite a short temper about it and will often wave his arms around confrontationally when someone passes close by (to the extent that one big fella in a Q7 stopped and got out for a... friendly chat about it) which generally removes any sympathy I have for him. We all have near misses through coming across idiot drivers, but it doesn't mean you can get upity about it and make things worse!

This is coming from someone who did cycle to work for a few weeks as a complete novice (and should do it again) and never had any problems mingling with cars.

 

[bainbridge]

Cyclists on black bikes, wearing black cycling gear. Why?

 

[jpaul]

so a navara is 2.2 tonnes (drum brakes apparently on the back) but I imagine you have to have a more cautionary driving style on country lanes.
(Drove a friends yaris over xmas with 3-up and it definitely handles and brakes differently to normal 3 series commute just one on board)

edit:

Cyclists on black bikes, wearing black cycling gear. Why?

we don't have sensible cyclist laws like france stupid br******s ?

Thanks both, I suspect I will choose orange ... we have a lot of rape-seed/cornfields(fens), so yes, orange is distinctive amongst vegetation.

Had considered Proviz, have never felt it, but fabric reviews suggested it might be fragile to abrasion.

[ A reference thread, I read was this - https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=89863.0
which ref's ce 1150 , eu standard with larger reflective panels, and side visibility (only accident I nearly had, in a car, with a cyclist, was a T-bone scenario)
]

 

[Rroff]

so a navara is 2.2 tonnes (drum brakes apparently on the back) but I imagine you have to have a more cautionary driving style on country lanes.

Actually comes to a stop pretty **** well for just over 2 ton of metal - unlike the regular D40 the Outlaw model has a lot of stuff underneath borrowed/based off the 370Z so a very different beast to drive to most pickups. It has given me a very different perspective on cyclists though in the time I've been driving it versus small hatchbacks :s

 

[jpaul]

someones comments on the law for france cyclists clothing LOL

This is a liberty, any cyclist not wearing the prescribed vest in poor lighting conditions outside of towns will/could be held partially or totally responsible for accidents.

Pedestrians sustaining injuries in poor lighting conditions may not be held responsible, the requirement leading to discrimination in accident compensation cases.

This sets the example for other countries to follow with selective discrimination. Anytime I go to France cycling I would need to carry this vest in case lighting conditions became poor. The speed limits could be set lower for nightime driving or in poor lighting conditions. Drivers could be required to pass strict eyesight tests for night driving conditions. Bicycle lighting standards could be improved. Motor car lights do not cover their braking distance in mnay situation and this means drivers are effectively speeding. Drivers should slow down rather than make cyclists wear vests. Cyclists would be the only road users not allowed to wear nornal clothing, infringing their human rights compared to other road users.

Could the ECF contest this in the European Court? Injunction, any legal views? Ask for funding support etc. Could members of the European Parliament state their objection?

 

[Rroff]

LOL - even if I drove slower, etc. I would still spot a cyclist wearing high vis much quicker against the background and that time will make the difference between life and death or at least health and serious injuries in situations that might be beyond both parties control - why would they not want that?

EDIT: Actually I kind of get it - when I used to cycle I was kind of dismissive of high vis but as a driver the difference is huge.

 

[Dogbreath]

Cyclists on black bikes, wearing black cycling gear. Why?

Stealth ninja cyclists. They only show up clearly when spread thinly across the front of a brightly coloured HGV.

 

[Dogbreath]

They are hated for going too slow by some and hated for going too fast by others.

Hated by drivers for going too slow anywhere apart from in heavy traffic (or through red lights), hated by pedestrians for going far too fast/too close. It's not even a stereotype, the number of good, considerate cyclists seems to be in the minority.

 

[Rroff]

I'd say it's a bit of a problem that the driver coming in the other direction was already taking evasive action, and pulling over to the kerb, because he thought you might overtake , as he was passing them.

The car behind him pulled even further over (was practically touching the curb) but I don't think it was because they thought I might overtake - I think they did it pre-emptively due to anticipating that people might come around the corner and find themselves quickly on top of the cyclists with nowhere to go as they'd already moved over as I came around the corner.

 

[Bear]

It's not even a stereotype, the number of good, considerate cyclists seems to be in the minority.

The same is true for drivers only it is often overlooked because many drivers are part of the problem so don’t see themselves as such. I certainly see gross stupidity and inconsiderate behaviour from both drivers and cyclists

 

[Shadowness]

....and there are a lot less cyclists, so you only have to see a couple of idiots to then label us all as idiots.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I don't see how we ever fix this problem. Common sense dictates you don't mix slow moving bicycles with fast moving cars - they disrupt the flow of traffic, result in unpredictable reactions from dafter motorists, but what's the alternative? They have to cycle somewhere and it's even less safe if they use the pavement.

 

[jpaul]

The car behind him pulled even further over (was practically touching the curb) but I don't think it was because they thought I might overtake - I think they did it pre-emptively due to anticipating that people might come around the corner and find themselves quickly on top of the cyclists with nowhere to go as they'd already moved over as I came around the corner.

maybe ... but they can see better on the bend -
I would pull over to left, if the driver coming up on the cyclists was really inappropriately placed, but otherwise, I usually (initially) make it clear, by maintaining line, that a three way pass is not on, and even flash them (before they can see cyclist), to say you have to position yourself correctly, this is dangerous.
(strawman - Especially if driving a smaller car, yaris over xmas, oncoming suv driver behaviour is similar to that which car drivers dole out on cyclists )

 

[Nasher]

The same is true for drivers only it is often overlooked because many drivers are part of the problem so don’t see themselves as such. I certainly see gross stupidity and inconsiderate behaviour from both drivers and cyclists

I rarely see drivers doing stupid ****, maybe 1 in 1000 at most. I see cyclists going through red lights etc literally every morning on the way to work (often in groups).

 

[bazzabear]

I rarely see drivers doing stupid ****

Really? Do you drive with your eyes closed? I can almost guarantee that on any car journey I take, no matter how short, I'll see someone in a car trying to kill themselves or others.

 

[Rroff]

I rarely see drivers doing stupid ****, maybe 1 in 1000 at most. I see cyclists going through red lights etc literally every morning on the way to work (often in groups).

I encounter idiot drivers almost every single day - the most common people pulling out of a garage (fuel) with no consideration for other drivers causing other drivers to have to take avoiding action of some kind. Another common one people not using indicators or indicating as or just after they start their manoeuvre.

 

[Nasher]

Not quite the same level of stupid as jumping red lights on busy junctions or pedestrian crossings though, is it.

I see it every morning, often the same cyclists on the same junction. One day they will get run over and then I'll drive past laughing.

 

[Conscript]

Not in my experience. People doing stupid **** in cars with no consideration for others seems to be commonplace, and much more dangerous, or at least, inconvenient for others.

By comparison, whilst I've seen cyclist nip through red lights at junctions, I can't remember the last time it actually caused an issue. Not that I'm justifying it, but it's often not much different from when a pedestrian decides they are able to cross a road without waiting for the light to turn green - because it's easier for them to observe the situation and make a judgement call on whether it's safe, and to react if the situation changes - much harder in a car. I don't criticise pedestrians for doing that, and I do the same on a daily basis myself, so I feel I would be hypocritical getting angry about cyclists when they do it.