Gang of 12 'allegedly' rape British Citizen in Cyprus

[Mr Jack]

The physical evidence is vaginal tearing? That's similar to the hyoid, whether voluntary, forced or self-inflicted similar damage can occur.

And the bruising to her body as well, including evidence consistent with her being held down. The state pathologist failed to follow correct procedures - as documented in court - so a lot of evidence was lost.

Lads convos can be pretty crass.

True, and on its own its hardly conclusive but it is part of a picture of a pre-planned gang rape.

Now answer my question, what's up with their version to make it less likely than hers?

A gang rape is a more likely event than two very unlikely events: (1) an ordinary 18 year old girl agreeing to a gang bang with around a dozen strangers, and (2) then making false rape allegations about it.

The boys, of course, don't have "a version" they gave conflicting initial reports, including ones which differ with the DNA findings. And they, unlike her, changed their stories without being subjected to eight hours of interrogation without a lawyer present.

 

[Mr Jack]

Yeah, one of the alleged guys has already proven he wasn't there by providing a timestamped photo of himself in bed with his partner...

And? Its highly likely, in a situation where the perpetrators are unclear, that initial arrests would include an innocent individual matching descriptions. Her testimony is that she is unsure of who exactly attacked her on account of being held down by a man kneeling on her shoulders.

 

[Dis86]

Her testimony is that she is unsure of who exactly attacked her on account of being held down by a man kneeling on her shoulders.

Something that I don't believe is borne out by the video evidence.

 

[Mr Jack]

Something that I don't believe is borne out by the video evidence.

As above, the only video confirmed to be of her shows people entering the room and her protesting. There is also a four year old porn video being circulated under the false claim it is her, there may be others.

The Cypriot Police did they job so badly that other video evidence and communications relating to the case was not taken from the boys phones.

 

[NVP]

including ones which differ with the DNA findings.

This has led me down a rabbit hole of Google to know what you're talking about and I now think I've come over to your side. As you were.

 

[Dis86]

As above, the only video confirmed to be of her shows people entering the room and her protesting. There is also a four year old porn video being circulated under the false claim it is her, there may be others.

The Cypriot Police did they job so badly that other video evidence and communications relating to the case was not taken from the boys phones.

Which unfortunately takes it back to her word vs theirs. Yes, you're right the Cypriot police are an utter dumpster fire but those saying it's clear cut etc. are incorrect. As I said earlier in the thread I'd love to see this in front of a proper EU court.

 

[Angilion]

[..]yea it is a bit of a stretch and the situations are completely different but the crux of the point is the same.

I disagree because the situations are completely different. Two extremely different things aren't comparable. Comparing sex with repeatedly smashing someone's face into a brick wall is not "a bit of a stretch". It's such a difference that the crux of the point is not the same at all.

would you stand idly by and record what was happening on your phone or would you try and intervene in a situation that seemed a bit off - and don't try and tell me a 19 year old girl looking for a 12 way wouldn't appear a bit off.

1) We don't know how many of the accused men were taking part, how many were there and doing nothing or even how many were even there at the time.
2) Don't try to tell me that a person consenting to group sex is the same as a person repeatedly smashing their face into a brick wall. The former is unusual but not wrong, the latter is suicidal in a particularly disturbing way.

 

[Mr Jack]

This has led me down a rabbit hole of Google to know what you're talking about and I now think I've come over to your side. As you were.

'Tis a rare pleasure to see a man change his mind on the internet

 

[NVP]

'Tis a rare pleasure to see a man change his mind on the internet

The first reports I had read appear to have been missing some key points that the tabloids covered. I'm all for improvement, you can't do that if stubborn

 

[Thekwango]

Comparing sex with repeatedly smashing someone's face into a brick wall is not "a bit of a stretch". It's such a difference that the crux of the point is not the same at all.

admittedly it was a silly comparison, i can see and expect a comparative reaction in those spectating both situations but i appreciate others may not. i was just trying to guage what people would do in a similar but non sexual situation. i got the impression from some of the posts in the thread that because she appers to be a bit of a 'bike' it's ok to sit back and do nothing (at best)

1) We don't know how many of the accused men were taking part, how many were there and doing nothing or even how many were even there at the time.

it's the doing nothing thing i can't fathom. who would sit watching, or simply ignoring that situation? who wouldn't, other than those looking a cheap thrill, try and intervene in a rather bizarre situation? is everyone so blase about sex now that it's perfectly normal for a 19 year old girl to instigate what for want of a better word is an orgy with a bunch of strangers without at least 1 person in an group speaking up? is it ok for someone to video the event and 'leak' it without someone speaking up?

2) Don't try to tell me that a person consenting to group sex is the same as a person repeatedly smashing their face into a brick wall. The former is unusual but not wrong, the latter is suicidal in a particularly disturbing way.

no i'm not trying to tell you that they are the same thing. but I will tell you that a 19 year old girl actively looking for a gangbang outside of a porno is rare enough that someone in a group that size should have questioned what was going on. if you think different, well, there's not much i can say to that.

i had a group of friends when i was a 'lad' and to a man we would have, as the saying goes, shagged the crack of dawn. but i'm 100% certain had that been our group that this would either have not occured or some in the group would have had slap in the mouth. but maybe times have just moved on. maybe it is normal enough now for 19 year olds girls to behave like this without anyone thinking it was strange. if so, i'm glad my youth is behind me.

 

[dowie]

And the bruising to her body as well, including evidence consistent with her being held down

So what?

A gang rape is a more likely event than two very unlikely events: (1) an ordinary 18 year old girl agreeing to a gang bang with around a dozen strangers, and (2) then making false rape allegations about it.

A false accusation might be a rare event but a false accusation given the rare occurance that happened perhaps not so much.

The sensible comments seem to be re: the handling of the case by the police etc...

Also it wasn’t a dozen, some were witnesses/didn’t partake. The thing was filmed and that seems to have been crucial here.

 

[Threepwood]

So what?

So there is evidence that is consistant with her being held down? Is that normal being held down while someone else has sex with you? And, is her being held down on the video?

 

[dowie]

So there is evidence that is consistant with her being held down? Is that normal being held down while someone else has sex with you? And, is her being held down on the video?

Why not go watch the video?

The other poster brought up her apparently being held down - so what?

 

[Dis86]

So there is evidence that is consistant with her being held down? Is that normal being held down while someone else has sex with you? And, is her being held down on the video?

No, it's not.

 

[Threepwood]

Why not go watch the video?

I don't want to. We dont even know if one of them is real from what I read.

The other poster brought up her apparently being held down - so what?

Brought up that there was evidence to show she was forcibly held down. So, she was held down in a way that bruised her? Ergo held down against her will?

 

[Meridian]

I have no idea if all of this is 100% true

Hmmm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe, just maybe, the Greek press will support Cyprus in this. To the point of printing without question any press releases, leaked comments etc that the Cyprus government wants them to. I'm reminded of all the fantastic lies that the Portuguese police peddled over the Madeline McCann case that swallowed at face value by many people here, because it fitted their view of the people concerned. In this current case, the well-documented misogyny of a large part of this forum. Anyone who has been here any length of time knows that a large part of the readership here automatically assumes that the woman is lying, no matter what the evidence or how unlikely the man/men's story. If the evidence doesn't fit that, they hunt around the internet until they find some. And Lord knows, misogyny is not rare on the internet.

 

[dowie]

Brought up that there was evidence to show she was forcibly held down. So, she was held down in a way that bruised her? Ergo held down against her will?

Possibly, but I don’t think the typical holiday gangbang involves missionary position and just taking it gently...

 

[Threepwood]

Possibly, but I don’t think the typical holiday gangbang involves missionary position and just taking it gently...

I wouldn't say a typical orgy includes being forcibly held down to be honest... Possible, but rare. I've only slept with one girl who wanted that kind of thing, making her very much a rarity if that was the case. If she did get off on all that, I cannot phathom why she would claim rape after, wouldn't she have just got on with her life after enjoying what she was after? Why would she even bring it all to attention.

Idk, evidence of being filmed without her permission, evidence of being held down, went to the police saying she had been raped...


Edit: Then 8 hours of being whatevered to change her story. You gotta admit it seems a bit off.

 

[Mr Jack]

Idk, evidence of being filmed without her permission, evidence of being held down, went to the police saying she had been raped...

... the boys repeatedly changing their stories after initially giving a version inconsistent with the physical and DNA evidence, the doctor who saw her first saying he was convinced she was raped...

 

[Angilion]

[..[ it's the doing nothing thing i can't fathom. who would sit watching, or simply ignoring that situation? who wouldn't, other than those looking a cheap thrill, try and intervene in a rather bizarre situation? is everyone so blase about sex now that it's perfectly normal for a 19 year old girl to instigate what for want of a better word is an orgy with a bunch of strangers without at least 1 person in an group speaking up? is it ok for someone to video the event and 'leak' it without someone speaking up?

My answers to the assumptions you've included in your statements are "women are not children" and "OK and normal are not the same thing". Conforming to what most people do is not the only acceptable course of action. It can be (and usually is) OK to not conform to what usually happens. Including having an orgy if you like. Videoing it is a different matter, as is leaking the video (if it was leaked - it's been claimed in this thread that it wasn't, that the alleged videos of it are not of it). Although in another way it's the same matter at the heart of it - consent.

This is in general, by the way. It might or might not apply to this specific incident, which seems short on verifiable information and long on suspicious aspects of the investigations.