Bullying - how to teach children resilience?
- Thread starter Hawkesbury
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Caporegime
Neither of my girls have been bullied, and to be honest it wasn't really until I read this thread that it occurred to me how commonplace it is. We have been very clear with both, using different language for a 6 and an 11 year old, that they de-escalate when they can, that they communicate it to an adult when they can, but if neither of those are realistic options at any given moment then they absolutely stand their ground. If that means that their reasonable actions result in a conversation with another parent or school head then that's fine. We won't have our girls being bullied but neither will we have them be bullies.
Soldato
As a father of an eight year old autistic boy, who's been bullied for the past two years, I hate to burst your bubble, but your post was both ignorant and insensitive.
As to the OP - I've tried teaching my boy some self-defense techniques (trained in Aikido, traditional Jui Jitsui and Muay Thai to a high level), but even knowing *how* to block a strike, my boy struggled with understanding *when* he should use it (poor judgement of social interactions are part of his ASD).
I found getting him into a local MMA Juniors team has helped boost his confidence and self-esteem a huge amount - something that helps repel bullies at any age. The instructor also dedicates a portion of the sessions to understanding when force is appropriate, what constitutes bullying, Stranger-Danger and something that particularly impressed me: How To Recognise Inappropriate Behaviour/Abuse.
He's gone from feeling isolated and ostracized to having a small but strong circle of friends, a couple of whom were previously (a small) part of the bullying.
I've enrolled my 6&3 year old daughters on the list for next year's sessions.
As a friend to several autistic people in school, I hate to burst your bubble but the first time one picked up a chair and smacked it over the head of the playground bully was the day his bullying stopped.
At the end of the day at that age "talking like grown ups" or "de-escalating" just never works as well as someone having a mild kicking. Maybe its the constant "trying to do it with words" which is why so many people grow up as part of the perpetually offended brigade when a kicking here and there might grow some spines.
Soldato
I'm going to assume you were in school back when your child smacking a chair over the head of the playground bully didn't result in assault charges, social services involvement and immediate expulsion due to the child's breach of the school's Zero Tolerance stance on Violence...?
I'm teaching my children to not make themselves a target for bullying in the first place, rather than risk being placed in another school's separate unit for excluded kids.
Three days ago was the start of the third decade since I left school - it may surprise you that things have changed somewhat.
This explains a lot about the pansy generations that are appearing...
But no it didnt, the teacher who saw it quite rightly said to the bully it serves you right (as all the teachers knew he was a bully) before dragging them both off to detention for a week.
Soldato
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Hammer the school more, and report them to ofsted over safeguarding.
If things have changed to the point where playground fights are police business then just get him to record a few instances of bullying on his phone and run to the police complaining about harassment or whatever, jeez it's no wonder the police don't have resources to combat proper crime.
Man of Honour
There is a problem with the general advice to escalate the violence. In order to resolve a violent situation with more violence you need to be willing and able to escalate the violence well beyond what the other person is willing and able to do.
I've been there twice, in a different time. I escalated the violence to screaming chimpanzee level and regained sanity to find my enemy bleeding on the ground. I don't think that would go well nowadays. It worked, but it's not a great idea and I wouldn't recommend it.
EDIT: Also, it won't always work. You might go up against someone who'll escalate further and stab you.
I've been there twice, in a different time. I escalated the violence to screaming chimpanzee level and regained sanity to find my enemy bleeding on the ground. I don't think that would go well nowadays. It worked, but it's not a great idea and I wouldn't recommend it.
EDIT: Also, it won't always work. You might go up against someone who'll escalate further and stab you.
lol that is ridiculous - the true sign of a pathetic bully, what an utter wimp that bully is.
I really don’t know what I’d do in that situation. I would want to give them the full platinum87 experience.
Soldato
Stand and bang?
Soldato
Nah they assume the boxing stance
Associate
Indeed, violence without control is not a good solution. Any good martial arts trainer will teach discipline first and foremost.
Man of Honour
Or at least a bit smart, since they got the result they wanted and then some.
True, but it doesn't address the points I made. It only addresses my anecdote of my own application (uncontrolled and dangerous, but effective) of the principle.
Another anecdote, tangentially related. A martial artist I used to know told me a lesson he'd learned from his teacher about the best way to apply martial arts to defending yourself. Run away. Your training will have made you fitter than them. It wasn't the answer he was expecting, but it was one he remembered.
Discipline and fighting skill won't change the first part and is of limited use with the second part. You need to be very skilled indeed to overcome such an enormous disadvantage.
I think it would often work because many bullies have at least some ability to assess a target and will avoid confident people who can fight effectively, but it's not always the best solution and it's not easy to decide when it is and when it isn't.
Most responses here are totally out of touch and do not cater for the majority of kids actually being bullied. When you are one of the smallest kids in the year, and it's several of them picking on you, do you think these victims have the confidence to stand and smack one of them? No they don't. Get real. You can tell your kids to fight back all you want, but most won't, because they are scared and are nice people that don't want to hurt others. You can explain that the bullies deserve it and it's ok to stand up for yourself all you like but they are not in a place where they can confidently physically stand up to them.
A lot of the bullying is very, very subtle targeted abuse verbally/mentally as well. It builds up over time. It's the tiny little comments in class deliberately crafted to wind up the victim, over, and over again. Subtle exclusions from group activities, or minor things that all add up to making the victim have a harder life. Many of it is via social media or on xbox live/ps4/game chat as well. Bullies have become conditioned now to know that they can tell on the actual victim, the moment they do anything back. The bullies group together and play the game too. It's all well and good recommending martial arts and the likes, but not all kids take to the formal discipline side of it very well and it can be very boring and lack fun imo, compared to a lot of other sports.
Some teachers are completely unaware of what goes on in the playground and out of their earshot. When you go to try to bring this up with the school, they aim to "take it seriously" and address it but this can make it worse. The parents if approached go into self preservation mode and stand up for their child too. I've even seen good friends turn on each other when it suits their outlook of what was or was not done.
It's a massively complex thing with no clear answer. If you can encourage your child to physically fight back, that's great. But this presents it's own problems in that often the victim then gets grassed up for smashing Jonny's nose in and is punished. This can then cause them to never want to fight back again since such a big thing gets made of their "awful actionos", and they don't understand why people don't see their (correct) side. It can be very hard to sort out for teachers as well.
With regard to the op then if it's mainly school that is the issue, whilst it can sound drastic, a change of school can work wonders. I've been through this myself and it's the best decision I ever made for my kid. I've encouraged mine to also smack the bully but they've never been able to, and that is absolutely no fault of them or I.
Speak to the school. Speaking to parents works less well....most don't take it seriously if it's not their own kid being bullied. I've seen this first hand with "friends" that play it down as "boys will be boys" and "girls will be girls" and "it's just banter" attitudes. They tend to try to laugh it off or claim that their child said that your child also does stuff to them too bla bla bla. When you get tough with the parent, it tends to turn into a tough stance back that their child is amazing and wouldn't do this kind of stuff. Extra points for them then posting about it on facebook that you're crazy and calling their kid a bully. I've seen it all honestly.
I've dealt first hand with resolving bullying of young children having ran a football team. Won't go into detail but it's a constant battle and requires a no tolerance policy and be prepared to ban even your best players if it happens.
A lot of the bullying is very, very subtle targeted abuse verbally/mentally as well. It builds up over time. It's the tiny little comments in class deliberately crafted to wind up the victim, over, and over again. Subtle exclusions from group activities, or minor things that all add up to making the victim have a harder life. Many of it is via social media or on xbox live/ps4/game chat as well. Bullies have become conditioned now to know that they can tell on the actual victim, the moment they do anything back. The bullies group together and play the game too. It's all well and good recommending martial arts and the likes, but not all kids take to the formal discipline side of it very well and it can be very boring and lack fun imo, compared to a lot of other sports.
Some teachers are completely unaware of what goes on in the playground and out of their earshot. When you go to try to bring this up with the school, they aim to "take it seriously" and address it but this can make it worse. The parents if approached go into self preservation mode and stand up for their child too. I've even seen good friends turn on each other when it suits their outlook of what was or was not done.
It's a massively complex thing with no clear answer. If you can encourage your child to physically fight back, that's great. But this presents it's own problems in that often the victim then gets grassed up for smashing Jonny's nose in and is punished. This can then cause them to never want to fight back again since such a big thing gets made of their "awful actionos", and they don't understand why people don't see their (correct) side. It can be very hard to sort out for teachers as well.
With regard to the op then if it's mainly school that is the issue, whilst it can sound drastic, a change of school can work wonders. I've been through this myself and it's the best decision I ever made for my kid. I've encouraged mine to also smack the bully but they've never been able to, and that is absolutely no fault of them or I.
Speak to the school. Speaking to parents works less well....most don't take it seriously if it's not their own kid being bullied. I've seen this first hand with "friends" that play it down as "boys will be boys" and "girls will be girls" and "it's just banter" attitudes. They tend to try to laugh it off or claim that their child said that your child also does stuff to them too bla bla bla. When you get tough with the parent, it tends to turn into a tough stance back that their child is amazing and wouldn't do this kind of stuff. Extra points for them then posting about it on facebook that you're crazy and calling their kid a bully. I've seen it all honestly.
I've dealt first hand with resolving bullying of young children having ran a football team. Won't go into detail but it's a constant battle and requires a no tolerance policy and be prepared to ban even your best players if it happens.
Soldato
Amazing post.
I've not had first hand experience of bullying, but I have children of my own now and although they've only just started school, if they were to be bullied I can absolutely see how dealing with the school and especially other parents must lead one to the edge of insanity. At its worst it's essentially another form of bullying.
Also what you say about bullies being smart, and never really overstepping the line which would force adult to step in is exactly what defines bullying imo. It's by definition pernicious.
Very difficult to know the answer.
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Soldato
Unless the bullying is overt (which it rarely is) how can violence be justified? Most bullying takes the form of isolating an individual then subjecting them to various form of psychological tormenting. If a victim attacks it just ostracises them even more.
Soldato
^^ hmmm. Bullies are usually cowards who pick on the weak, especially at the kind of age we are talking. As soon as the bullied shows strength this usually puts the average bully off, because they don't get what they are after as easily as with a weaker person.
Strength comes in many forms, one of which is being prepared to fight back with violence.
Fighting back stopped me being bullied when I was young, fighting back for friends who were being bullied stopped them getting bullied too.
I'm not sure that resilience can be directly taught, but it can be learnt. I guess resilience can come as a side effect of something too, which is where learning confidence from activities including fitness and self defence can help.
My youngest was being bullied by a girl 2 years older then him when he was 14; With words and violence. He didn't want to be violent with her, he is also a big lad and doesn't want to be violent with any kids really, he's afraid of hurting them tbh. He is tall and stocky, I'm only stocky, he was taller than me at 14.
Anyway, enough was enough, so I went to the girls parents house and demanded it all stopped. I also went into the school and took the head to task about it.
The bullying stopped, but, as my dad says... When you are angry, you look like you an axe murderer, so YMMV.
Strength comes in many forms, one of which is being prepared to fight back with violence.
Fighting back stopped me being bullied when I was young, fighting back for friends who were being bullied stopped them getting bullied too.
I'm not sure that resilience can be directly taught, but it can be learnt. I guess resilience can come as a side effect of something too, which is where learning confidence from activities including fitness and self defence can help.
My youngest was being bullied by a girl 2 years older then him when he was 14; With words and violence. He didn't want to be violent with her, he is also a big lad and doesn't want to be violent with any kids really, he's afraid of hurting them tbh. He is tall and stocky, I'm only stocky, he was taller than me at 14.
Anyway, enough was enough, so I went to the girls parents house and demanded it all stopped. I also went into the school and took the head to task about it.
The bullying stopped, but, as my dad says... When you are angry, you look like you an axe murderer, so YMMV.
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We had a stereotypical school bully who bullied everyone because he was about 6ft 3 and 17 stone at 13 years old. Everyday was dead arms, dead legs etc. Everyone just got used to taking it and then one day I snapped and smacked him as hard as I could in the face. He had a complete look of shock on his face and then he proceeded to throw me around our classroom and beat the crap out of me lol.
We did shake hands after and he did stop acting like such a tool. But violence more often than not breeds more violence.
We did shake hands after and he did stop acting like such a tool. But violence more often than not breeds more violence.