Etiquette for Lycra Clad Nutters?

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The state of our roads in this country doesn't help. I'm often riding in the middle of the lane (not the road) in many places, as the normal position is simply unrideable.

If you're thinking 'christ this road is bad' in your car, sitting in a squidgy seat with nice suspension.....imagine sitting on a bit of carbon fibre, no suspension and 110psi in your tyres!

(I realise it's my choice to ride a bike.....I'm just saying.....)

Yeah I know, some for me are really bad, because some are narrow the heavy vehicles (bin carts etc) damage the sides of the road and chip them away.

Its very rare for me to see a cyclist this time of year, my issue is really that I drive down some lovely roads in rural suffolk where mamils take a day off to go riding in the country.
So come the spring they will be about again, go for a nice ride out in the sticks, and I have no issue with that at all, its just some of them seem to think we all want to dawdle along (relatively ) at 20 (at a push for many) for a mile through a village whilst they take in the scenery

I don't keep my distain for the cyclists, car drivers annoy me just as much. The ones that drive along at 45 well away from the edge as well. Disappear off into the distance in the 30s, then a mile later I catch them, still doing 45 that they did through the last village

 

[Clearcut]

I can guess why he was annoyed, the car is an old E46 M3 convertible and obviously accelerating from 20-40 in 2nd gear with a 3.2 Straight 6 NA engine might have slightly surprised him, but what can I do about that?, if I tried to baby it by him I'd have to wait for some time to get a long enough straight to be safe and that doesn't happen for another mile or so on this road.

I was with you until you showed everyone your willy.

 

[vanpeebles]

I'll always remember the time in the MGB, when I just rebuilt my carbs, but fitted the fibre top washers, which I didn't know were only meant for the metal top carbs. Both my dash pot pistons came loose while driving and the fuelling was arl ower.

I ended up stuck behind a cyclist on a twisty section of country lane for ages, over fuelling like mad on the over run. I moved over flooring it to overtake and the whole car shook with a huge backfire. I didn't even dare look in the mirror, I thought I'd spilt my new exhaust too. I reckon they got blown over a hedge

 

[Nasher]

Probably killed him. RIP.

 

[vanpeebles]

lol

 

[jpaul]

It's not the noise, its the cloud of black from a poorly maintained diesel that annoys me as a cyclist, and a car driver, where I'll flash them : )

.. would be interesting to wear a filter/mask for a few days and review it's state.

 

[Nasher]

I normally use activated carbon pollen filters in the car because of those diesels. It filters most of it but some of them stink so bad.

 

[Demon]

I was with you until you showed everyone your willy.

Nothing wrong with showing your cheap old wrinkly willy on a forum...

Since making the OP, I had a think about the situation and something seemed a bit odd regarding the entire situation of overtaking cyclists and that is based on around 20K miles on a bike commuting (over many years), I've never remotely felt unsafe with cars passing by even moderately close (0.5m or slightly less with <20MPH speed differential), the only incident I've had is a bus slowly overtaking so closely it brushed against my rucksack (which juts out a bit)..
I appreciate more room being given, but cars overtaking even moderately closely have seen me, and even 50cm is a fair chunk of wiggle room (IME), I just don't 'see' why people think cars need to leave 1.5M+ as a minimum, it seemed a bit OTT to me. This is especially true in some of the cycle lanes around me, the distance between bar and to wingmirror seems <1M in most places, and in places this is definitely under 0.5M if I was to ride 0.75m from the kerb because I'd be right on the cycle lane marking.

So I wondered if it was just me being ignorant of the facts, not understanding the facts and statistics or just being very lucky so decided to give it a quick look.
e.g.
Take the pic someone posted on page 1:

And look at most of the campaigns
(e.g. https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaign/toocloseforcomfort) that again use a car as the example..

But then reading that very same cycling uk report (and the ROSPA source of that claim: https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs...fety/cyclists/cycling-accidents-factsheet.pdf) you realise that the actual statistic is:
"About one quarter of accidents resulting in serious injury to a cyclist involved an HGV, bus or coach ‘passing too close’ to the rider."

It seems a bit misplaced to show cars in all the photo's and aim it at the general public as if cars passing close is statistically significant when the real issue is lorries/buses etc misjudging the width of their very wide vehicles, something I've experienced myself.

Not that you shouldn't give as much room as possible to the cyclist of course.

 

[jpaul]

would be interesting to see an analysis of the experience of those riders , and the type of accidents they have, to, potentially, justify the need for better education;
leastaways urban lorry incidents, with inexperienced (?) cyclists filtering, or sitting in blind-spot, have been very prominant.

- So at the weekend, local leisure cycle club coming towards me two a breast on nsl, jawing @12mph, volvo suv was tired of waiting to overtake,
so seemed to think that it was obligatory, for me cycling towards them both, to cycle in the gutter, to allow him to pass them on my side of the road. - might is right

there maybe a new solution

Finally, when the (male) experimenter wore a long wig, so that he appeared female from behind, drivers left more space when passing. Overall, the results demonstrate that motorists exhibit behavioural sensitivity to aspects of a bicyclist's appearance during an encounter

 

[Nasher]

Nothing wrong with showing your cheap old wrinkly willy on a forum...

Since making the OP, I had a think about the situation and something seemed a bit odd regarding the entire situation of overtaking cyclists and that is based on around 20K miles on a bike commuting (over many years), I've never remotely felt unsafe with cars passing by even moderately close (0.5m or slightly less with <20MPH speed differential), the only incident I've had is a bus slowly overtaking so closely it brushed against my rucksack (which juts out a bit)..
I appreciate more room being given, but cars overtaking even moderately closely have seen me, and even 50cm is a fair chunk of wiggle room (IME), I just don't 'see' why people think cars need to leave 1.5M+ as a minimum, it seemed a bit OTT to me. This is especially true in some of the cycle lanes around me, the distance between bar and to wingmirror seems <1M in most places, and in places this is definitely under 0.5M if I was to ride 0.75m from the kerb because I'd be right on the cycle lane marking.

So I wondered if it was just me being ignorant of the facts, not understanding the facts and statistics or just being very lucky so decided to give it a quick look.
e.g.
Take the pic someone posted on page 1:

And look at most of the campaigns
(e.g. https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaign/toocloseforcomfort) that again use a car as the example..

But then reading that very same cycling uk report (and the ROSPA source of that claim: https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs...fety/cyclists/cycling-accidents-factsheet.pdf) you realise that the actual statistic is:
"About one quarter of accidents resulting in serious injury to a cyclist involved an HGV, bus or coach ‘passing too close’ to the rider."

It seems a bit misplaced to show cars in all the photo's and aim it at the general public as if cars passing close is statistically significant when the real issue is lorries/buses etc misjudging the width of their very wide vehicles, something I've experienced myself.

Not that you shouldn't give as much room as possible to the cyclist of course.

TBH more cyclists probably crash in to cars than cars crashing in to them, but doesn't get reported. Had it happen to mine :/

 

[Drollic]

@Demon - The rules need to cater for everyone regardless of ability, speed, bike setup, roads, conditions etc. For instance, an experienced rider would find a 5m commute on good roads around a town in dry weather at around 17-18mph easy going. They wouldn't care about a slightly close pass from a car. If that same rider was aiming for that speed on a 200 mile ride carrying extra weight, on roads they don't know and it's wet, hilly, with high wind, they're going to be bothered if a car passes them too close on a downhill section at 40mph or more. They're going to be even more bothered if it's an open area exposed to the wind and they're on 40mm+ carbon wheels.

 

[Bear]

TBH more cyclists probably crash in to cars than cars crashing in to them, but doesn't get reported. Had it happen to mine :/

That I can believe that but its probably because so many drivers pull straight out in front of cyclists because they either dont see them or dont even look. When I say they dont even look, I mean they look for other cars / motor vehicles, a cursory glance for a motor vehcle and thats it. The same happens to motorbikes which was what the whole Think Bike campaign was based on.

 

[jpaul]

Obviously its the drivers fault if they pull out of a junction and you collide ... is that what Nasher meant ?

over last year 2 near accidents down to drivers cutting in, and 2 down to me ... came off a familiar roundabout not anticipating traffic was stopped dead,
and one at stupid Aldi store that have uneven steel grating at entrance
..... only cam off in last one, just rubber on the others ... bigger tyres than 25mm might help

 

[Nasher]

Nope, I had a cyclist go in to the side of me at a t junction because they were peddling as fast as possible and not looking where they were going. Litteraly put a face dent in my rear quarter. I got out and they left the scene without a word. Didnt report it. Must have really hurt though.

 

[dod]

Nope, I had a cyclist go in to the side of me at a t junction because they were peddling as fast as possible and not looking where they were going. Litteraly put a face dent in my rear quarter. I got out and they left the scene without a word. Didnt report it. Must have really hurt though.

What you're saying is that someone managed to do a 3-4 metre detour into your car just at the point where you were sitting waiting to come out of a junction?

 

[jpaul]

bbc news item on cyclist tragically hit by car
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000ddg8/look-east-west-evening-news-16012020 2":40

web cam from another car helped show offenders erratic(also unlicensed) driving that day (does it sway conviction ?)
but the cycling club, unlike the presenter, not wearing high vis,
another cyclist from club discusses he will now put his lights on flash during daylight, but not their clothing.

 

[Rroff]

another cyclist from club discusses he will now put his lights on flash during daylight, but not their clothing.

Flashing lights need a bit of thought IMO - the flash causes an event which is more likely to catch attention but you also need a solid light so people can quickly judge position and heading and if like the video I posted before it is the sole rear light and happens to be in an off phase when you first come across them that can also delay you spotting them momentarily. Front flashing ones need to be angled with some thought as I've mentioned before - before I moved house I used to regularly encounter the same cyclist coming the other way who had a bright flashing front light that was angled so that it dazzled you as a driver and delayed ability to react if you came across them suddenly such as going around a corner.

(EDIT: Obviously a different story in daylight versus dark).

Would also appeal strongly to any cyclist to wear at least some item of high vis - the difference it has made now I'm driving country roads a lot more in how quickly I differentiate a cyclist from the environment/background is HUGE and that extra 1-2 seconds is a big difference in reaction/thinking time.

 

[Nasher]

High vis is much more visible than a small light.

A little flashing white light is just pointless.

 

[Beans on toast Dave]

i cycle regularly with a club, i just dont get the guys who wear black or dark clothes, i wear bright high vis colours, and have decent lights and still get drivers who dont see me!
looking ahead the guys in black just blend into the background, IDIOTS

 

[Bear]

High vis is much more visible than a small light.

A little flashing white light is just pointless.

I my opinion people should have a combination of both lights and bright colours / high vis. Research has also shown reflective strips on the legs or shoes is even better as they constantly move so catch the light repeatedly.