Paedophile gang not dealt with by both the Police and social services.

[Roar87]

Mary was 13 and Joseph was 15. Legal marrying age was 12 years and 1 day. Until 1929 in the UK a girl could get married once she was 12. Child marriage is allowed in over 100 countries even today, many fo them Christian countries. Even in the USA in some states girls as young as 12 are married today in Christian communities. So yeah tell me more about this "pedo Christianity"????? Sounds worrying and perhaps it should be banned?

Christians aren't told to emulate Joseph and Mary though, they aren't held up as the standard to live by, irrespective of what people do in Christian countries it isn't part of the religious doctrine. These are just false equivalencies.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Don't practice archaic beliefs or we'll punish you with archaic methods.

Launching theists into the Sun using SpaceX rockets would be too expensive.

 

[Greebo]

Christians aren't told to emulate Joseph and Mary though, they aren't held up as the standard to live by, irrespective of what people do in Christian countries it isn't part of the religious doctrine. These are just false equivalencies.

Not really not when many christian communities in the world still accept girls marrying at 12. ALl religion is bad IMO.

 

[Sankari]

Mary was 13 and Joseph was 15.

Hilarious nonsense. There's no evidence for this whatsoever.

At the time Jesus was born, both Joseph and Mary were travelling independently across multiple borders and paying their own way with their own money. This was not something you could do as children. Joseph himself was a professional carpenter, and had died by the time Jesus began his ministry at the age of 30.

They were adults.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Bulk buy from Radway Green will get 9x19 NATO Ball rounds for way less then 70p each.

I doubt local councils have the funding for bulk purchases. Dispatch Agents would be required to purchase on a round by round basis from their own pocket, either claiming it back on expenses or from an ammo allowance determined in advance.
Likely councils will appoint the cheapest tendering contractor, who then stings them with the hidden costs once they have a 5-year contract. That's how it usually goes...

Besides, if it were as simple as going NATO calibre with a NATO contractor, there are plenty of other far more enjoyable options than just 9mm...!!

I don't think people have any idea of the resources required by a single force to investigate something like a single murder investigation, let alone an investigation into a widespread paedophile ring with that many suspects.

People do. That's why people mentioned the cheaper 9mm solution, especially where goings-on like this are already known to the Police!

Then you have the internet hardmen who say "hurr durr put a bullet in 'em", personally I like living in a country with due process.

If you'd rather hear it asserted in person, let's arrange a meet. I'm more than happy to put your tax money where my mouth is and go do the job myself... especially if the remuneration package is good.
Besides, Due Process means fair treatment through the justice system. If they're not even getting arrested and into that justice system in the first place, there's no Due Process, is there!!

I mean, if their opinion had been "hurr durr put a bullet in 'em" regarding rapists not too long ago, quite a few men would have wound up executed due to the CPS

Which is why that wasn't their opinion.
Rape essentially comes down to one adult's word against another as to whether consent was or was not given (or even able to be given).
Sexually assaulting children (who by default are unable to give consent at all) is far more clear-cut, especially when law enforcement also know it is happening.

Also, living in Northern Ireland, I've seen the effects of kangaroo courts and happen to know one or two of the type of psychopaths that wouldn't think twice about putting a bullet in someone (and have had bullets put in them as punishment). They're not nice people. In fact they're knuckle dragging morons.

Funny you say that... I never used to feel this way about the justice system until after I'd been to Northern Ireland. And no, I'm probably not a very nice person in your eyes... but I'm a bunch of ******* flowers and chocolates compared to the sort of ***** I'd be looking to put down for their crimes.

I feel like I should be asking if you know what 'nemesis' means...!!

 

[VincentHanna]

Hilarious nonsense. There's no evidence for this whatsoever.

At the time Jesus was born, both Joseph and Mary were travelling independently across multiple borders and paying their own way with their own money. This was not something you could do as children. Joseph himself was a professional carpenter, and had died by the time Jesus began his ministry at the age of 30.

They were adults.

Most of the bible is hilarious nonsense.

 

[NVP]

Launching theists into the Sun using SpaceX rockets would be too expensive.

Compromise...

 

[Roar87]

Not really not when many christian communities in the world still accept girls marrying at 12. ALl religion is bad IMO.

There's nothing in the Bible telling people to do that though, do you not see the difference? I know it's easy to pretend there's no difference between Religions and they're all just as bad, but you're just being intellectually dishonest and it's factually incorrect.

 

[Haze]

Average GD thread gone completely off topic....

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Compromise...

Thanks, I’ve had a good chuckle over that!

 

[Threepwood]

They were adults.

I think people were considered to be an adult a lot sooner back then.

How old do you suppose Mary would have been? With no children etc before being married to Joseph? Surely she was somewhere between 12 and 16? Going by what happened back then.

As for Joseph, I guess it is much harder to put an age on him, but people were apprentices from a young age back then and pretty proficient in their trade by adulthood, which again was much younger than by todays standards. The Bat Mitzvah is at 13 to 15 no? Which is a coming of adulthood.

 

[D.P.]

There's nothing in the Bible telling people to do that though, do you not see the difference? I know it's easy to pretend there's no difference between Religions and they're all just as bad, but you're just being intellectually dishonest and it's factually incorrect.

no where in the Quran does it tell people to rape, inject heroin in children, commit paedophilia or break the laws of the land.

 

[Sankari]

I think people were considered to be an adult a lot sooner back then.

Not really, and in any case Joseph is described as an adult.

How old do you suppose Mary would have been? With no children etc before being married to Joseph? Surely she was somewhere between 12 and 16? Going by what happened back then.

She would not have been anywhere near 12. Luke 1:39 confirms that she was old enough to travel independently from Nazareth to Judea (a distance of 128 km as the crow flies) which is not something a child could do in those days.

When Elizabeth (one of Mary's relatives) learns that Mary is pregnant, she describes her as 'blessed among women'; again, this is not something you would say to a child.

As for Joseph, I guess it is much harder to put an age on him, but people were apprentices from a young age back then and pretty proficient in their trade by adulthood, which again was much younger than by todays standards.

Adulthood was not 'much younger than by today's standards', and Joseph was dead by the time Jesus was 30, which is further evidence that he was a mature man by the time he married Mary.

While it was not uncommon for families to agree a formal betrothal for their children when they were in their early teens, the actual marriage typically came years later. Moreover, being old enough to marry was not considered the same as being an adult.

Generally speaking, adulthood in the Ancient Near East was considered to commence at the age of 20. The Law of Moses specified that a man could not become a soldier until he was 20 (four years older than the modern standard of 16!) and could not become a priest until he was at 30.

The Bat Mitzvah is at 13 to 15 no? Which is a coming of adulthood.

No.

Firstly, the the Bat Mitzvah did not exist during the time of Jesus; it emerged during the Middle Ages. So it has no relevance to Joseph and Mary.

Secondly, it is not a 'coming of adulthood.' It's a ritual confirming that the individual has reached the age of responsibility to the Law of Moses (13 for boys, 12 for girls). However, some Jews wait until they are adults before celebrating their Bat Mitzvah.

 

[Threepwood]

Not really, and in any case Joseph is described as an adult.

Really? It's only a hundred years ago the term 'teenager' was coined. Before then you were either a child, or an adult.

She would not have been anywhere near 12. Luke 1:39 confirms that she was old enough to travel independently from Nazareth to Judea (a distance of 128 km as the crow flies) which is not something a child could do in those days.

Not sure about this either, what stops a 12 to 16 year old being able to walk? I think people were a lot hardier then, than they are today as well.

Generally speaking, adulthood in the Ancient Near East was considered to commence at the age of 20. The Law of Moses specified that a man could not become a soldier until he was 20 (four years older than the modern standard of 16!) and could not become a priest until he was at 30.

This just seems sensible? At 20 you are going to have more muscle on you? Same with being a priest, just with wisdom over brawn.

No.

Firstly, the the Bat Mitzvah did not exist during the time of Jesus; it emerged during the Middle Ages. So it has no relevance to Joseph and Mar

Didn't know that, but, all the things I read about it say, coming of age, reaching adulthood etc.


How old do you think Mary was? and Josepth?

 

[Sankari]

Really? It's only a hundred years ago the term 'teenager' was coined. Before then you were either a child, or an adult.

Not quite. While the concept of teenagerhood did not exist, it wasn't as simple as 'you were a child yesterday, today's your birthday so you're now an adult.' Certain roles and responsibilities were simply not accessible to you until you were old enough, and that age was generally 20.

Not sure about this either, what stops a 12 to 16 year old being able to walk? I think people were a lot hardier then, than they are today as well.

Walk 128 km from one city to another, alone? At the age of 12? During the 1st century CE? While pregnant? Are you serious?

Here's just a few of the reasons why that's not remotely feasible:

* parents would not have allowed it, especially with their 12 year old daughter newly pregnant
* some parts of the region were dangerous (aside from the obvious dangers associated with travelling alone and pregnant at the age of 12)
* the journey too at least 6 days, and required money for food, accommodation, and transport (where is 12 year old Mary getting all this money from? how is she going to stop anyone from stealing it?)
* a child of that age had no way of navigating the trip independently

And again, Elizabeth (who is much older) calls Mary a woman. This is not something an senior woman would say to a child of 12.

This just seems sensible? At 20 you are going to have more muscle on you? Same with being a priest, just with wisdom over brawn.

That's my point. Adulthood was defined in terms of physical and mental maturity. It wasn't some kind of Scout badge you received at the age of 13.

Didn't know that, but, all the things I read about it say, coming of age, reaching adulthood etc.

Nope, not that simple.

How old do you think Mary was? and Josepth?

I think Mary was probably in her early 20s (though perhaps as young as 18 if she made the trip to Judea in a caravan rather than going alone). Joseph was probably anywhere between late 20s and mid 30s.

 

[ttaskmaster]

no where in the Quran does it tell people to rape, inject heroin in children, commit paedophilia or break the laws of the land.

Religion is all about 'interpretation' of the texts though, innit...?

 

[wesimmo]

So, are we saying that Muslim paedophiles are told to do it by their god, kind of coerced into it. While Christian paedophiles are just evil and choose to do it?

 

[Threepwood]

Not quite. While the concept of teenagerhood did not exist, it wasn't as simple as 'you were a child yesterday, today's your birthday so you're now an adult.'

Yeah, was it not more like, you have finished puberty, so now you are an adult?

And again, Elizabeth (who is much older) calls Mary a woman. This is not something an senior woman would say to a child of 12.

If she had finished puberty, she would be called a woman, not a child.

Here's just a few of the reasons why that's not remotely feasible:

I genuinely think you are doing people of that age, especially back, then a disservice, the population as a whole was much younger than it is today and people from 12-16 can be really very capable, especially in those days.

Hmmm, I'll try and find a national geographic article that talked about why a teenager (or young adult) brain is like it is, which is meant to do with being able to survive in a harsh world with no-body, other than maybe folk of a similar age looking out for you.

I think Mary was probably in her early 20s

Really? Early 20's, no kids and only recently married?

 

[D.P.]

most theologists believe Mary was young a young teenager, likely around 14-15

 

[Greebo]

Not really, and in any case Joseph is described as an adult.



She would not have been anywhere near 12. Luke 1:39 confirms that she was old enough to travel independently from Nazareth to Judea (a distance of 128 km as the crow flies) which is not something a child could do in those days.

When Elizabeth (one of Mary's relatives) learns that Mary is pregnant, she describes her as 'blessed among women'; again, this is not something you would say to a child.



Adulthood was not 'much younger than by today's standards', and Joseph was dead by the time Jesus was 30, which is further evidence that he was a mature man by the time he married Mary.

While it was not uncommon for families to agree a formal betrothal for their children when they were in their early teens, the actual marriage typically came years later. Moreover, being old enough to marry was not considered the same as being an adult.

Generally speaking, adulthood in the Ancient Near East was considered to commence at the age of 20. The Law of Moses specified that a man could not become a soldier until he was 20 (four years older than the modern standard of 16!) and could not become a priest until he was at 30.



No.

Firstly, the the Bat Mitzvah did not exist during the time of Jesus; it emerged during the Middle Ages. So it has no relevance to Joseph and Mary.

Secondly, it is not a 'coming of adulthood.' It's a ritual confirming that the individual has reached the age of responsibility to the Law of Moses (13 for boys, 12 for girls). However, some Jews wait until they are adults before celebrating their Bat Mitzvah.

You are judging as by today's standards. A girl became a woman as soon as she had her first period and was assumed to be 12 years and 1 day. Most scholars put Mary around 13 when became pregnant.