*** The official 2018 MacBook Pro thread (it has six cores and everything!) ***

Man of Honour
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I've got a Logitech MX Anywhere 2S mouse, I connected it into my MacBook Pro using bluetooth, and it worked straight away, including forward and back. In order to install the software, due to an additional layer of security in macOS I had to allow it some accessibility options. It took around 5 seconds to do this when installing the software. I can also go into the OS settings mouse options and change the scroll direction should I want.

I use the same mouse on Windows from time to time (it has 3 bluetooth profiles) and I had to install the same software. Sure it takes a little less time (we're talking seconds) but I still need the Logitech software to enable the advanced features of the mouse.

I'll happily trade those few seconds compared to having a device that will install updates as and when it wishes.
 
Soldato
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I bought a logitech bluetooth mouse for the MacBook before it went back. After numerous popups telling me to click here, activate this (rather than a big "do you want to allow x to run" popup like on Windows), eventually I installed the software. Then I tried to reverse the direction of the scroll wheel because MacOS has it set opposite to that on Windows and I also tried to get the forward and back buttons to do anything at all. I couldn't get it to work. Every other mouse I've ever had on Windows I plug straight into the USB port and everything...just works.

Teething troubles and I'm sure one OS is broadly as usable as the other once you get accustomed to it.

Besides....John Lewis won't accept the laptop back because my wife logged onto it. They've told me they're going to return it, leaving me with two laptops. I am waiting to see if they will reconsider. However, I can make a case for bringing the laptop into my business, which will effectively shave a big chunk off the purchase price if JL won't change their minds. I don't want the laptop but I'm lucky enough that it won't impact me financially if I'm forced to do so.

I knew DSR had changed, but I didn't think it had swung so far the other way!
How many days have you had it?

They are allowed to charge a restocking fee but have to take it back within 14 days.
 
Man of Honour
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I think when I changed the scroll wheel direction, it changed the track pad too, no? Very annoying. I did find software to do it in the end.

There is an app called Scroll Reverser you used to have to use before the mouse manufacturers started making decent software.

My mouse scroll wheel direction (MX Anywhere) and trackpad are two independent settings.

That's how I have mine.
 
Soldato
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How many days have you had it?

They are allowed to charge a restocking fee but have to take it back within 14 days.

Their T&C's say the product must be returned unused, except where necessary to inspect the item. Once personal data is on it, their representative gleefully told me, they can't accept it back.

Compare to my experience at Curry's: I bought a Win 10 laptop, got it home, set it up for my wife before realizing that they had the same model with better specs in the sale for less money than I paid. I drove back to the shop and they couldn't have been more helpful in resolving the issue, including wiping the Win 10 laptop right in front of me. The sale laptop I wanted wasn't in stock, so they ordered it and I got it next day.

John Lewis wasn't very impressive at all, especially given the smugness of the person I spoke to about the Macbook return.
 
Soldato
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Their T&C's say the product must be returned unused, except where necessary to inspect the item. Once personal data is on it, their representative gleefully told me, they can't accept it back.

Compare to my experience at Curry's: I bought a Win 10 laptop, got it home, set it up for my wife before realizing that they had the same model with better specs in the sale for less money than I paid. I drove back to the shop and they couldn't have been more helpful in resolving the issue, including wiping the Win 10 laptop right in front of me. The sale laptop I wanted wasn't in stock, so they ordered it and I got it next day.

John Lewis wasn't very impressive at all, especially given the smugness of the person I spoke to about the Macbook return.
Did you buy online or in store?

Pretty sure they couldn't do this if it was bought online
 
Soldato
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Did you buy online or in store?

Pretty sure they couldn't do this if it was bought online

It was bought online and I was pretty sure they couldn't do this either, else I would have taken more care. Here is what their returns blurb states:

"Please return your item unused and in original condition (including all labels and tags intact) with proof of purchase within 35 days, and we’ll give you an exchange or refund as long as your returned product meets our terms and conditions "

with further details on what constitutes unused:
  • you’ve kept all original packaging and labels in good condition and the product can be resold at full price
  • you haven’t used the product
  • the product contains no personal data and isn’t registered to a user.

If they wanted to enforce this, it allows them to reject any return for example switching on a TV to see if you liked the picture, tuning in a radio, tried on a pair of jeans etc etc
 
Soldato
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I think your expectations are well off the mark here.

The law doesn’t allow you to buy something, use it (except where needed to inspect the item e.g. jeans, that said if you wear them out/remove the labels, they are yours) and then return it if you don’t like it. You have to return it in the condition you received it to get a full refund.

Online retail isn’t try before you buy unless they tell you it is (e.g. one of those foam mattress companies that have popped up in the last few years). A retailer shouldn’t need take a hit because you used something and you just simply didn’t like it.

There is one thing returning something unopened as unwanted, not as described or faulty, I have no issues with any of that. I have little sympathy if some opened it, used it and then tried to take it back because they didn’t like it.

At the end of the day you are asking someone else to take a huge hit on something because you didn’t take the opportunity to do your own due diligence. They can’t re-sell the item for full price, many items they will not be able to resell at all under this circumstance.
 
Soldato
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It was bought online and I was pretty sure they couldn't do this either, else I would have taken more care. Here is what their returns blurb states:

"Please return your item unused and in original condition (including all labels and tags intact) with proof of purchase within 35 days, and we’ll give you an exchange or refund as long as your returned product meets our terms and conditions "

with further details on what constitutes unused:
  • you’ve kept all original packaging and labels in good condition and the product can be resold at full price
  • you haven’t used the product
  • the product contains no personal data and isn’t registered to a user.

If they wanted to enforce this, it allows them to reject any return for example switching on a TV to see if you liked the picture, tuning in a radio, tried on a pair of jeans etc etc

These are against your consumer rights.

Get back in touch and tell them you are using your 'right to cancel' not the JL refund policy

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds
 
Last edited:
Soldato
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I think your expectations are well off the mark here.

The law doesn’t allow you to buy something, use it (except where needed to inspect the item e.g. jeans, that said if you wear them out/remove the labels, they are yours) and then return it if you don’t like it.

It literally does
 
Soldato
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These are against your consumer rights.

Get back in touch and tell them you are using your 'right to cancel' not the JL refund policy

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations

No. No. No.

Did you read your own link? The distance selling regs were replaced years ago, it even says that at the top.

It literally does
nope.

The consumer contracts regulations dictate what rights you have. The relevant section is still cancellation and it says:

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...cts-regulations#cancelling-goods-and-services

Cancelling goods and services
The Consumer Contracts Regulations also give you key cancellation rights when you enter into contracts at a distance over the phone, online, from a catalogue or face-to-face with someone who has visited your home, for instance.

These cancellation rights are more generous than if you bought goods or services from a high street shop. For details on your rights when you buy from a high street shop, read our guide to the Consumer Rights Act.

Your right to cancel

Your right to cancel an order for goods starts the moment you place your order and ends 14 days from the day you receive your goods.

If your order consists of multiple goods, the 14 day period runs from when you get the last of the batch.

This 14 day period is the time you have to decide whether to cancel, you then have a further 14 days to actually send the goods back.

Your right to a refund

You should get a refund within 14 days of either the trader getting the goods back, or you providing evidence of having returned the goods (for example, a proof of postage receipt from the post office), whichever is the sooner.

If the retailer has offered to collect the goods, it should refund you 14 days from the date you informed it you wanted to cancel the contract. So, this means you don't have to wait for the retailer to have collected the goods to get your refund.

A deduction can be made if the value of the goods has been reduced as a result of you handling the goods more than was necessary.

The extent to which you can handle the goods is the same as it would be if you were assessing them in a shop.

Refunding the cost of delivery

The trader has to refund the basic delivery cost of getting the goods to you in the first place, so if you opted for enhanced service eg guaranteed next day, it only has to refund the basic cost.

Exemptions

There are some circumstances where the Consumer Contracts Regulations won’t give you a right to cancel.

These include, CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping, perishable items and tailor-made or personalised items. They also include goods with a seal for health protection and hygiene reasons that's been broken.

Also included are goods that have been mixed inseparably with other items after delivery.

Always check the terms and conditions

The minimum cancellation period that you must be given is 14 days but many sellers choose to exceed this, so always check the terms and conditions in case you have longer to change your mind.

The relevant paragraph is the section about how much you can handle the goods. It’s the same you can in a shop.

I don’t know any shops you can pick up a sealed laptop off the shelf, open the box, turn it on, download your own software and add your own personal information before you decide to buy it or not.

TLDR: No, you don’t have the right use a product and then return it for a full refund. Individual retailers may opt to but they have no obligation to do so.
 
Soldato
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No. No. No.

Did you read your own link? The distance selling regs were replaced years ago, it even says that at the top.


nope.

The consumer contracts regulations dictate what rights you have. The relevant section is still cancellation and it says:

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...cts-regulations#cancelling-goods-and-services



The relevant paragraph is the section about how much you can handle the goods. It’s the same you can in a shop.

I don’t know any shops you can pick up a sealed laptop off the shelf, open the box, turn it on, download your own software and add your own personal information before you decide to buy it or not.

TLDR: No, you don’t have the right use a product and then return it for a full refund. Individual retailers may opt to but they have no obligation to do so.

I edited the link between my post and your post :p

In a store you would be able to test the laptop out using a display model, poking around the OS, seeing how it works. Testing the keyboard out, etc.

You quite obviously cannot do that to a laptop in a sealed box but a shop would have one on display for you to try out!
 
Soldato
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The relevant paragraph is the section about how much you can handle the goods. It’s the same you can in a shop.
.

How does one test a laptop to this standard without logging on to it?

Anyway, I have phoned John Lewis and they have agreed that I was unable to handle it like I could in the shop, however there is a new GDPR law which governs how they deal with personal data. Therefore they are not allowed to reset the laptop, from which I understood that their own policies and procedures to protect themselves have also failed me as the customer. Apparently if I go into a store, they should be able to reset the laptop and refund me. It's all a bit of a hassle though.
 
Soldato
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I edited the link between my post and your post :p

In a store you would be able to test the laptop out using a display model, poking around the OS, seeing how it works. Testing the keyboard out, etc.

You quite obviously cannot do that to a laptop in a sealed box but a shop would have one on display for you to try out!

So you just confirmed my point.

There is obviously a clear distinction between messing around with a display model and opening a sealed unit for sale and using it for a week at home.

Imagine if you went into a shop, paid full price for a brand new unopened MacBook and they have you the one the OP returned?

You’d be ****** if you got it home and it had clearly been used.


How does one test a laptop to this standard without logging on to it?

Your rights don’t enable you to buy a product, test it, and then later cancel the contract (e.g. return it as unwanted/changed your mind/didn’t want it). Once you use the product, as far as the law stands, it’s yours. It’s that simple, if you want to test a product, go and use a demo unit somewhere. A retailer may have a policy that goes over and above your statutory rights but they don’t have to do so.

If the product isn’t as described (e.g. sold as a 6 core but actually got a 4 core) or it isn’t fit for purpose (e.g. dodgy keyboard) then you have different rights and may be eligible for a refund or repair but that’s not what we are taking about here.
 
Soldato
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Your rights don’t enable you to buy a product, test it, and then later cancel the contract (e.g. return it as unwanted/changed your mind/didn’t want it). Once you use the product, as far as the law stands, it’s yours. .

You said it yourself...The extent to which you can handle the goods is the same as it would be if you were assessing them in a shop.

If you go into a shop, you can check out the preinstalled software. If you order the goods online, you are obliged to create an account and log on to the laptop in order to handle the goods in the same manner as you would in the shop. Therefore, a laptop bought online does not allow you to handle it as you would in the shop.

The person I spoke to in JL agreed with me. It's a completely different law relating to GDPR that prevents them accepting a return of my laptop once I've logged in. The conflict between one law (can handle like you would in a shop) and another (protection of personal data) is not good for retailers or consumers.
 
Soldato
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No you can’t, you can look at a demo unit but only if they have one. A shop will not allow you to open a sealed unit and start using it which is what you are suggesting.

John Lewis may decide to refund you but theirs their choice not your right.
 
Soldato
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No you can’t, you can look at a demo unit but only if they have one. A shop will not allow you to open a sealed unit and start using it which is what you are suggesting.

John Lewis have demonstration units in every shop, therefore I'd expect to be able to handle an online order in the same way as I would in the shop. You're interpreting the law one way, I'm interpreting it another.
 
Soldato
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No I’m not, like I said, there is a clear distinction between using a demo unit and opening a sealed unit for sale and using it for a week, the latter you would never be able to do.

Let me put it another way, you order a silver microwave online from Curry’s. The microwave comes and you are able to inspect it, check the colour matches your expectation etc. as you can in the shop regardless of if there is a demo unit or not. At this point you could send it back for a full no quibbles refund.

Instead you decide to use it to cook your dinner every night for a week and then decide to send it back because you don’t like that you have two button presses to get it into timed defrost mode instead of on your last one where it was one button press. There is nothing functionally wrong with it, it’s as described, you just don’t like it.

Do you see the difference?

The latter is what you are suggesting is within your rights, it isn’t and never has been. You have never had the right to use something for 14 days before deciding if you want to keep it or not. It has to be returned in condition you received it to get a statutory refund, used is not how you received it.
 
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