Doctor Who

Soldato
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Also the AI rating of Doctor Who is still in the 80s where it's been for a LONG time
last time i checked the AI rating for the entire channel averaged over 80, so either Dr. Who is as good as everything else or it's as bad as everything else... I cant decide which is more accurate tbh. When AI is based on a group of 20,000 people it only represents a small minority of the people watching tv programming, so i will happily ignore the AI rating and stick to the total viewing figures, including online of course. Episode 3 did drop to 77 though, if you put any stock in those figures. Wonder what it'll be for Ep4....

surprisingly, seems these 20K are asked to watch doctor who ... but maybe the site is wrong.
http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/settling-the-moffat-vs-rtd-debate-using-ai-scores-63151.htm
as opposed to asking those 20k people what they thought of a group of programmes... and if they didn't watch it (anymore like me) they might mark it at some low figure, because it was beneath the AI threshold they bother to watch things.

today R4 introdced the, new to me, terminology of woke capitalism, so, I'm going to call doctor who woke tv, so - strawman ,
folks still watching it, may, just not be sensitive/annoyed by that, moreover, other benefits outweigh it, or,
maybe they are, but let their children/family watch it because of this new edcuational value in that respect ?
 
Associate
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That wouldn't fit with what we know so far.

Explains the reappearance of the Master without complicating things with the matter of where this regeneration fits.
Explains why the Doctor took so long to figure out Orphan 55 was Earth.
Explains how a planet that suffered an alien invasion every Christmas day for 5 years still pretends aliens aren't real.
Explains two Doctors and how Gallifreyians were in this episode.


It actually fits really well and I hope it's the case that somewhere last season they crossed into a different universe without realising it. It certainly makes a lot more sense than what I suspect/fear will be the outcome, throwing 57 years of continuity down the crapper to do a pre Hartnell retcon.
 
Soldato
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Explains the reappearance of the Master without complicating things with the matter of where this regeneration fits.
Explains why the Doctor took so long to figure out Orphan 55 was Earth.
Explains how a planet that suffered an alien invasion every Christmas day for 5 years still pretends aliens aren't real.
Explains two Doctors and how Gallifreyians were in this episode.


It actually fits really well and I hope it's the case that somewhere last season they crossed into a different universe without realising it. It certainly makes a lot more sense than what I suspect/fear will be the outcome, throwing 57 years of continuity down the crapper to do a pre Hartnell retcon.

Fingers crossed!

I don't watch the hater videos or hang around hardcore fan sites or the like and generally try to avoid spoilers. However, I did come across something at random before this season started where there were strong denials that there would be the introduction of more female doctors and a rewrite the long established canon of the show. Apparently it was all fake news. :D

Sadly I do agree with people about the lack of gravitas in Jodie's ongoing portrayal. She just doesn't seem to have that confident, swagger that previous doctors (and Michelle Gomez as the Master) were able to put on. Mind you, I thought Lenny Henry came across as the more weighty character than the new Master (Sacha Dhawan) in that episode.

Aside from Captain Jack's odd looking hair and makeup (presumably the immortal character has issues facing up to ageing) I do hope they aren't about to jump the shark and trample the show's heritage with this secret female doctor/history story line...
 
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If they start inserting regenerations pre-Hartnell that's exactly what it would be.

And the timecracks only covered up to the end of 11 for retconning that. So all was right for about an episode and a half before it became a problem again.
 
Soldato
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It wont be pre-Hartnell, she has a police box . She also didnt recognise the sonic screwdriver which the 2nd doctor had. So IF she is really from 'our' tineline, it's likely she would be the 2nd doctor?

Still though, it makes a mockery of the whole 12 regen limit story line if that's this case.
 
Soldato
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It doesn't really as we already know the Timelords can grant a new cycle if they wish.

Also Chibnall has confirmed now the she is the Doctor and not a alternate or parallel version.
 
Soldato
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Yes it does, because Matt Smiths doctor was granted a new regeneration cycle when he was on his last regen, and that was before this new female doctor popped in to existence. Now theres another doctor to slot in to the timeline? So Smith's doctor used all his regens plus one before the timelords granted him a new set of regens?

Either she's not part of Whittaker's Doctors past, or they are retconning the time line again.
 
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Still though, it makes a mockery of the whole 12 regen limit story line if that's this case

That's the least issue; No matter what, something that's so heavily ingrained with Who lore is going to be broken if it wants to try and be decent and of quality. But again, the writing provided so far doesn't inspire confidence that they will manage to pull this off succesfully except for winning points with a certain group of people. And that's where fans are concerned. Something that's fine as it was is going to be messed around with just for a pointless tickbox exercise.

It doesn't really as we already know the Timelords can grant a new cycle if they wish.

Also Chibnall has confirmed now the she is the Doctor and not a alternate or parallel version.

Oh most certainly they can grant more regen cycles. But it doesn't mean they won't make a mockery of the regen limit and Doctors so far. Because no one else on Gallifrey seems to know anything about past Doctors prior to The First Doctor; William Hartnell. Except maybe for our oh so special "Master" who might have worked it out from the word play being used by them in script in the second episode this season. And she's using a Police Box, whilst when Hartnell left in his, it was a Tube still; ie unconfigured exterior shell. So... something has to give, and it won't be the current stories, so they're going to rewrite Who lore to fit in with what they want instead. And again, with the current writers, that's not exactly going to be promising future.
 
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It doesn't really as we already know the Timelords can grant a new cycle if they wish.

Also Chibnall has confirmed now the she is the Doctor and not a alternate or parallel version.

see my previous comment about 57 years of continuity in the crapper. They got away with inserting the war Doctor because it was part of the original regeneration cycle. To try and insert more Doctors now doesn't fit and totally undermines Smith's ending.

Somebody is gonna break their hand with how hard and how fast the reset button is going to get hit with this.
 
Soldato
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So making up the war doctor to fit their narrative is fine but not this?

Doctor Who has always changed its narrative to fit the plot. Salem history, Gallifrey and the Timelords themselves. Who has always changed. Not everything has stayed the same since 63.

In fact the show is about change, so it doesn't bother me if there was a full regen cycle or something prior to Hartnell.it doesn't really affect Hartnell or anything after it.
 
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Soldato
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So making up the war doctor to fit their narrative is fine but not this?

Doctor Who has always changed its narrative to fit the plot. Salem history, Gallifrey and the Timelords themselves. Who has always changed. Not everything has stayed the same since 63.

In fact the show is about change, so it doesn't bother me if there was a full regen cycle or something prior to Hartnell.it doesn't really affect Hartnell or anything after it.

I think there is a real danger that it does. The War Doctor stuff was all part of the 2005 reboot and didn't require a complete rewrite of classic who canon. For 57 years William Hartnell has been established and endlessly referred to as being the first doctor and it would be a pretty bold move to now try and change that. There is a clear history of regenerations from him to Matt Smith, then the new cycle starting with Capaldi. They would really need to absolutely knock it out the park to have a chance of getting people on board with changing this, which doesn't seem terribly likely.
 
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So making up the war doctor to fit their narrative is fine but not this?
You cant tell the difference?

One doesnt throw an entire story arc down the pan. The other does.

In fact the show is about change, so it doesn't bother me if there was a full regen cycle or something prior to Hartnell.it doesn't really affect Hartnell or anything after it.
It cant be prior to Hartnell, I've explained why, and it means the doctor should have died with Smith. But no, why care? right? Let's just retcon it, except it's not retconning because you said it isn't. I dont know why you are soo defensive, it's not like Chibnall deserves it.
 
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Associate
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In fact the show is about change, so it doesn't bother me if there was a full regen cycle or something prior to Hartnell.it doesn't really affect Hartnell or anything after it.

Ok I'll bite. Give me a reasonable explaination that doesn't **** over what we know, for why when Clara disperses herself through the Doctor's entire timeline in the episode "in the name of the Doctor" she didn't come across any incarnations prior to Hartnell (who as mentioned above, stole the TARDIS before it locked as a policebox so it still doesn't fit)?

I legit hope Chinball is lying about Jack not coming back and this not being an alternate universe to preserve the surprise otherwise, quite frankly he's lost it.
 
Soldato
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Ok I'll bite. Give me a reasonable explaination that doesn't **** over what we know, for why when Clara disperses herself through the Doctor's entire timeline in the episode "in the name of the Doctor" she didn't come across any incarnations prior to Hartnell (who as mentioned above, stole the TARDIS before it locked as a policebox so it still doesn't fit)?

I legit hope Chinball is lying about Jack not coming back and this not being an alternate universe to preserve the surprise otherwise, quite frankly he's lost it.
Easily, the Timelords wiped the doctors previous incarnations from his memory and from the matrix.

 
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Doesn't fit. It was neither the Doctor's memory or the Matrix the Great intelligence and Clara used, it was his own timeline past and future.

Which brings us back to the same old statement about 57 years of continuity and a toilet.

Think I'm going to leave this here, there isn't going to be any reasoning with you while you blindly support the show retconning away it's own past.
 
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It wont be pre-Hartnell, she has a police box . She also didnt recognise the sonic screwdriver which the 2nd doctor had. So IF she is really from 'our' tineline, it's likely she would be the 2nd doctor?

Still though, it makes a mockery of the whole 12 regen limit story line if that's this case.
The 12 regen story line has been broken and retconned all the way back to some of the early Master stories which were often around him trying to get additional regeneration either by stealing them from other time lords or via some Time Lord tech.
It's been a very long time since I read the stories/saw the relevant episodes but IIRC the Council could give additional regenerations to Time Lords who performed specific services to them (often I think to offset where a time lord lost a regeneration on a mission), and the old books basically said the ability to regenerate was not an inherent trait but engineered into the time lords and a result of one of their big bits of tech, between that and the whole regnerations as a reward/to replace those lost in service always gave the inference that the 12 regeneration limit was arbitrary and intended as much as a population control measure as anything else.

From memory the Lungbarrow story (book) and one of the old multiple Doctors stories explored this quite a bit, whilst multiple Master as the enemy episodes used the whole "wish to get more regenerations" thing.
Which just leaves the "why didn't the doctor remember.." but that's similar to the Doctor not remembering being the "War Doctor", or when the doctor went into hiding and sealed away his memories.

The Doctor Who timelines and abilities have always been rather fluid as there was never any "guide book" for the lore that was used (for example the first regeneration was because they wanted to keep the series going, but the actor was too ill) until very late in the day, by which time they'd already built up a nice set of conflicting bits of lore, most of which have never been dealt with ;)
Instead they've built on it over the years, in much the same way that Star Trek has a load of conflicting information when you look into it, some of it dealt with by ignoring it, some by hand waving (IIRC the change in how Klingons looked at different times was brought up onscreen once and Worf said something like "We don't talk about it").
 
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just to point out that there has been two versions of the DR at the same time before. in Trail of a timelord. it was reviled that the char called the Valeyard was in fact a version of the DR
 
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