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Except they are not DRLs and they are they not positioned as such therefore this isn't lawful?
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- Thread starter Lopéz
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Except they are not DRLs and they are they not positioned as such therefore this isn't lawful?
Soldato
Yeah, loved it, great cars
nice one! a few 171w's in uk, more coming for sure.
well of course they're not DRL's which is why I said I treat them like DRL's.
what's lawful and what isn't when it comes to fogs doesn't really bother me. I want to make my self more visible and if my car is "pre" DRL days I will use my fogs.
did the same with my mk1 mx5 and never had issues.
Soldato
I do
in the day the fogs are on at night the headlights are on.
and in the day the fogs are fine, they increase visibility but don't really blind anyone as they're not that bright as you can see by the picture.
Soldato
IMHO front fog lights are completely useless anyway. There are so few situations where they offer any actual benefit that they might as well not exist. At this point I'm sure they're just fitted for styling reasons.
Caporegime
Clipping apexes while doing 70 down an unlit farm track road.
Soldato
They're used in many weird ways, some drive with them on all the time...others never use, others have it as corner lights (manufacturer depending) I use them as a full on "look at my Japanese import" street street cred booster.
Soldato
I actually thought mine would come in useful a couple of weeks ago; I was driving along a completely unlit, narrow rural road at night in thick fog. Thick enough that my headlights were just creating an enormous hazy ball of candyfloss right in front of the car. I thought to myself, perhaps my front fogs would help in this situation. I turned them on, and turned the dipped beams off. Useless. Completely useless to the point that I wasn't sure they were actually working
Soldato
would've worked better if they were yellow tbf.
I actually thought mine would come in useful a couple of weeks ago; I was driving along a completely unlit, narrow rural road at night in thick fog. Thick enough that my headlights were just creating an enormous hazy ball of candyfloss right in front of the car. I thought to myself, perhaps my front fogs would help in this situation. I turned them on, and turned the dipped beams off. Useless. Completely useless to the point that I wasn't sure they were actually working
They aren't designed to allow you to see...they are designed to allow you to be seen. Hence why they're redundant, because if you want to be seen, you just stick you headlights on. If they were actually useful, then they'd probably be compulsory on all cars...you know, like rear fog lights, which are actually useful.
That said, I've stopped getting annoyed at people using them "unnecessarily". I used to get irritated about it, until I stepped back and looked at it objectively and realised that actually they rarely bother me at all. I was only getting irritated because I spent too much time on the internet listening to others moan about them.
Put it this way, I'd take people driving around with front foglights on all the time, over people not using foglights (or any lights) when it actually is foggy. I find the latter much more concerning.
That said, I've stopped getting annoyed at people using them "unnecessarily". I used to get irritated about it, until I stepped back and looked at it objectively and realised that actually they rarely bother me at all. I was only getting irritated because I spent too much time on the internet listening to others moan about them.
Put it this way, I'd take people driving around with front foglights on all the time, over people not using foglights (or any lights) when it actually is foggy. I find the latter much more concerning.
Soldato
It was one heck of a sunset in the midlands. Shame I was driving the Korean diseasel bus. At least it’s clean at the moment. Would have much preferred to be in a convertible Porsche!
In my experience working nights I often encounter fog/mist on my way home in the early hours - when I hit a bank of the denser stuff where turning on fogs would be a consideration full beams tend to just bounce off it causing a lot of glare and reduced visibility, the front fog lights do actually increase visibility of the foreground but not to a distance that actually makes much of a difference as it is barely or sometimes even less than the stopping distance even at anything other than a very slow speed :s . I guess they do allow others to see me coming a bit easier though.
Fortunately the roads are usually empty at those times as a couple of places if the conditions are like that the fog banks up so you have literally less than 6 foot visibility beyond the end of the bonnet.
Soldato
Front fog lights have a very wide beam pattern and are placed low down to effectively illuminate the sides of the road so that in very thick fog you can still see the edges and the white lines. They are not to help you "be seen" at all. For this purpose headlights are much more effective.
Also, driving in thick fog with your high beams on actually improves your ability to see further ahead rather than reducing it. Try it one night in thick fog...put your main beams on and whilst you'll get some glare/reflectance off the fog ahead of you your beams will punch through and pick up road signs etc much further ahead than you can "see". You can't "see" further ahead with dipped beams on...you only feel like you can.
Up to a point it helps but definitely doesn't help in the fog banks I come through going home some nights - I've tried normal, full and fogs and high beams just results in glare off the fog bank making it harder to see into it and whiting out any reflection from stuff that might be in it. I'll have to try and remember to keep some footage next time off my dashcam as there are a couple of bits that are crazy.
I'll give you that the low placement lets you see white lines easier, but I still maintain that's not what they seem to be designed for. Headlights are a better way of being seen, but that why I maintain that fog lights are a bit redundant. The only advantage they ever seem to give is that you can be seen with your headlights off, so you aren't just staring at a wall of glare. But then the law says (AFAIK) that not using your headlights when it's foggy is illegal anyway. Not once have I noticed turning on front foglights actually really helping at all.
I still take the opinion that if they were really useful, then they'd be mandatory on all cars, like the rear fogs, which actually do have an obvious advantage.
There's obviously going to be a subjective element to this, because of the combination of cars/headlights/bulb types/fog encountered could be huge, but not once have I ever turned on my full beams in fog and encountered anything like this. All it ever does is make things worse. If the fog is that bad, then I'm usually only crawling along anyway.
That is something I'm not too happy with my truck but not much I can do short of after-market additions - the main beams seem a bit dull and to fall too short (nothing wrong with the bulbs, etc.) while the high beams seem to be aimed a bit upwards and very intense probably lighting up twice as much as previous vehicles I've had.
Soldato
Nevertheless, that's exactly what they are designed for. To help you see the sides of the road (very close to your car) in thick fog.
Modern cars with modern headlights benefit less and less from fog lights as the beam patterns these days are much more precisely controlled. My last few cars have not had fog lights and I've not missed them one bit.
As you say, headlights are much better for being seen.
Cool. Can you point me to some proof of this? Because it seems to me that if you intend a lamp to help you see the side of the road better, then the current design of most modern fog lights is severely lacking. They are mounted lower and wider, but still with little regard to actually directing light anywhere (which should be achievable, as headlight design proves), which seems to be peoples main complaint about people leaving them on constantly.
Not saying you're lying, but you seem very sure, so presumably there's a design specification somewhere, or a history that you're aware of. I want to know when foglights went from something that actually had an intended defined purpose to being what appears to be little more than an indicator that you chose a higher trim level, which seems to be their primary use today.
For example, the fog lights on my car are mounted lower. But they are just a circular lamp with a normal 12W bulb in them - there's been no obvious attempt to make them useful for what you say other than being lower than the headlights. I find them essentially useless.
Soldato