Zalman CNPS20X

doyll · 6 Feb 2020 at 15:36

I think it's becoming harder and harder to maintain a market share. Look at how Cryorig, Thermalright, Prolimatech, and others that were easily available 5-8 years ago are now very hard to find. Sad.

wazza300 · 7 Feb 2020 at 01:00

Its all the aio,rgb crapness,people forget about decent air coolers

Alan1969 · 7 Feb 2020 at 15:59

random_matt said:
When's Prolimatech going to do the same?

About 4 yrs ago I got an overclocked 8 core FX8350 bundle from OCUK that should have come with a prolimatech cooler - instead it came with a hyper 212 which is great.

Grim5 · 8 Feb 2020 at 18:50

doyll said:
I think it's becoming harder and harder to maintain a market share. Look at how Cryorig, Thermalright, Prolimatech, and others that were easily available 5-8 years ago are now very hard to find. Sad.

because there is no innovation

air coolers Just about hit their limit

while aio find ways to get cheaper and add innovation

always remember that after market cooler are niche products used by gamers. The majority of the market is using the inbox coolers. And gamers are all about that rgb now so aio are selling well

b00merang69 · 8 Feb 2020 at 18:53

Well thanks to some old tech were going to get a new type cooler with sy(i)phon system.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...e-thermosiphon-cooler.18873252/#post-33230660

doyll · 8 Feb 2020 at 18:58

wazza300 said:
Its all the aio,rgb crapness,people forget about decent air coolers

That and many users don't bother to setup case airflow properly. Stock cases rarely have decent airflow. Few even have enough or good enough fans out of the box.

Grim5 said:
because there is no innovation

air coolers Just about hit their limit

while aio find ways to get cheaper and add innovation

always remember that after market cooler are niche products used by gamers. The majority of the market is using the inbox coolers. And gamers are all about that rgb now so aio are selling well

True, air cooling with heatpipes has plateaued. I don't think CLC are any better today then when they first appeared. A few AIOs (not CLCs) have improved with more availablity, but that's about it. CLCs got market share because people bought the marketing hype. It's like the thousands of trail bikes sold to commuters years back. Knobby tires wer totally unfit for purpose for users riding on street, paved and packed trails, but the sold like pancakes at a breakfast bazaar.

b00merang69 said:
Well thanks to some old tech were going to get a new type cooler with sy(i)phon system.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...e-thermosiphon-cooler.18873252/#post-33230660

I hope you are right, but I'm afraid it won't work out like they hope. It's been tried a couple of times before and failed.

Grim5 · 8 Feb 2020 at 19:12

doyll said:
That and many users don't bother to setup case airflow properly. Stock cases rarely have decent airflow. Few even have enough or good enough fans out of the box.

True, air cooling with heatpipes has plateaued. I don't think CLC are any better today then when they first appeared. A few AIOs (not CLCs) have improved with more availablity, but that's about it. CLCs got market share because people bought the marketing hype. It's like the thousands of trail bikes sold to commuters years back. Knobby tires wer totally unfit for purpose for users riding on street, paved and packed trails, but the sold like pancakes at a breakfast bazaar.

I hope you are right, but I'm afraid it won't work out like they hope. It's been tried a couple of times before and failed.

there are more parts in an AIO and many ways to improve performance.

you can widen the tubes
You can upgrade the pump
You can change the fin array design
You can increase the rad length or width
You can change the fun array design on the block

for air coolers, adding heatpipes may not help anymore there is a limit to them that's why they have stagnated. You can make the heatsink bigger at the cost of weight, same goes for fans you need to make the heatsink bigger.

something like the noctua models are already at the pinnacle of design.

the reason the zalman cooler is a bit better than the d15 is a slightly change fin array for better airflow and new fans and it's taken so many years for someone to do it.

funny enough even though I listed many areas where AIO can get better performance, the main reason why AIO temps have slowly dropped over the last few years is the pumps get updated with newer models while the rest stays the same. But you can easily drop AIO temps tommorow by just making the radiator thicker for example and not amhave to worry about weight limits like an air cooler

and part of the AIO "innovation" I was referring to is silly thing (but they sell the product) like rgb fans with custom software controll, screens on the pump that provide real time data and cool effects etc and more color options - want a white cooler? Only AIO offers that

wazza300 · 8 Feb 2020 at 19:44

Cant beat air coolers for reliability though

doyll · 8 Feb 2020 at 21:22

Grim5 said:
there are more parts in an AIO and many ways to improve performance.

you can widen the tubes
You can upgrade the pump
You can change the fin array design
You can increase the rad length or width
You can change the fun array design on the block

for air coolers, adding heatpipes may not help anymore there is a limit to them that's why they have stagnated. You can make the heatsink bigger at the cost of weight, same goes for fans you need to make the heatsink bigger.

something like the noctua models are already at the pinnacle of design.

the reason the zalman cooler is a bit better than the d15 is a slightly change fin array for better airflow and new fans and it's taken so many years for someone to do it.

funny enough even though I listed many areas where AIO can get better performance, the main reason why AIO temps have slowly dropped over the last few years is the pumps get updated with newer models while the rest stays the same. But you can easily drop AIO temps tommorow by just making the radiator thicker for example and not am have to worry about weight limits like an air cooler

and part of the AIO "innovation" I was referring to is silly thing (but they sell the product) like rgb fans with custom software controll, screens on the pump that provide real time data and cool effects etc and more color options - want a white cooler? Only AIO offers that

wazza300 said:
Cant beat air coolers for reliability though

What wazza300 said above.

What I said has little to do with what you replied. But before we get into AIO/CLC, can we agree that there are 2 kinds of AIOs, and thst CLCs are a sub-group of AIOs. We have AIOs with threaded fittings, copper radiators and fill port like Alphacool Aisbaer, be quiet! Silent Loop and Swiftech h280, and we have CLC that are factory sealed units with no way to do anything but run until they die make by Asetek, etc.

CLCs cool no better now than they did when first released .. except now some have bigger radiators and better fans, but that's about it. You say 'pumps have been updated' but we have no data to prove that. They don't publish pump specifications so we have no way of knowing flowrate and lift, but in all probability flowrate and lift haven't changed much if any .. end result is if they have improved their cooling hasn't and we have no data to support it. If they really were improving the actual performance of pumps why wouldn't they publish pump performance spec?

So far CNPS20X test results are not any better than top tier coolers we already have, some for almost 10 years now. NH-D14 and IFX-140/Cogage/Silver Arrow were first twin tower coolers and they cool as well as D15 and other newer ones. Only change is over they years now we have a wider choice in coolers with similar performance. If it really had better cooling fins it wouldn't need higher speed fans to match the same cooling ability we see in other top tier coolers.

wazza300 · 8 Feb 2020 at 22:27

The cnps20x has more modern fan and heatsink design though,thats how it pulls ahead of older noctua d15 design,thats what the reviews are saying,just needs noctua to now catch up and improve

doyll · 9 Feb 2020 at 13:47

Testing that is reasonably accurate show them both performing about the same. Reviews that are monitoring and recording air temp into cooler at same time as CPU temp is being recorded. CNPS20X fans are more open on side so may draw air into cooler from different angles than conventional fans, but fan design is more fancy than functional. It's massive motor supports on intake side restrict way more airflow to fan than conventional designs do and open sides allow more air to movesideways from impeller .. which is the reason conventional fans have side shrouds.

And the ripple shaped fins is not new as it's been used by other companies for years. Same goes for some copper fins as we already have some all copper finned coolers. Their "IHT (Interactive Heatpipe transferDesign)" and "RDTH (Reverse Direct Touch Heatpipe)" are nothing new either. All it is is 'U' shaped heatpipes with bottom of 'U' in cooler base and heatpipes inclosed in copper base, things many companies have been doing from day one with heatpipe coolers.

Below results show D15 being better .. both quieter and lower temperature.

http://cooln.kr/bbs/review/749118?p=4

Below review at 40dB shows NH-D15 75.62c and CNPS20X 74.34c, 1.28c cooler. But it's a case built test system with nothing said about air temp into cooler so we don't know if both coolers had same temp air at time CPU temps were recorded. Even if it is same temp air the results are well within margin of error.

https://quasarzone.co.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=qc_qsz&wr_id=343003

Destination · 9 Feb 2020 at 18:08

So in essence it is as quiet, and as able to cool as anything on the market?
So no reason not to consider it then?

EsaT · 9 Feb 2020 at 19:35

wazza300 said:
The cnps20x has more modern fan

Nothing modern in more marketing BS.
Unless counting in that marketing is nowadays quackery more than ever.
If frameless design actually helped you can bet that most fans would have been frameless long time!
But it doesn't do any good even in low impedance situation.
Arctic has done such fans in the past and SilentPCreview tested one dozen years ago. Result was mediocre.

Copper again has better thermal conductivity than aluminium, so that can help heatsink itself.
But it costs lot more than Alu and weights 3x as much limiting how much of it can be used in heatsink.
Those full copper Zalman coolers of pre-heatpipe era were only possible because they had far less surface area than heatpipe coolers.

doyll · 9 Feb 2020 at 20:47

Destination said:
So in essence it is as quiet, and as able to cool as anything on the market?
So no reason not to consider it then?

Do what you want. I'm more interested in seeing what average users are saying a year from now than in what a few talking heads making a living by promoting themselves and products are now spouting.

MartinPrince · 9 Feb 2020 at 23:53

doyll said:
Do what you want. I'm more interested in seeing what average users are saying a year from now than in what a few talking heads making a living by promoting themselves and products are now spouting.

Precisely what I was thinking. I'll wait for a quite a few more 'proper' reviews before drawing any conclusions.

b00merang69 · 10 Feb 2020 at 00:00

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

wazza300 · 10 Feb 2020 at 15:39

I dont know why folks are knocking it tbh,seems a good cooler to me,just go for the best price,performance

doyll · 10 Feb 2020 at 17:37

I don't think it's knocking the cooler as much as it's knocking KG's hyped flim-flam man carny barking, this elixir cures all ailments kind of review .. because it doesn't take a lot of knowledge about cooler to know it's not what they hyped it to be. We want to know if it really is as good as NH-D15 (and and how how well it will last over at least a year or two of use. After we see more reasonably accurate reviews (like the Asian ones) showing it similar to D15 and not making claims it's way better than D15 and people owning and using them for a year or so.

Edit:
Just stumbled across another review showing it as well but is louder with other top tier coolers.
https://www.gamezoom.net/artikel/Zalman_CNPS20X_Test_Review-44709-4