Jordan Peterson thread

[neckbeardthethird]

It's not that simple though is it? 'Drug addict' has implications as a phrase. It's not the same as someone getting jacked up on heroin regularly compared to being prescribed something by your doctor. You're being disingenuous if you don't see what implications using that phrase has.

So what do you call someone who is addicted to prescribed drugs then ?

 

[Mason-]

So what do you call someone who is addicted to prescribed drugs then ?

By their name? Why do you need to affix a label? Especially when the one you're opting for doesn't tell the whole story. Rather than saying "Jordan Peterson is a <label>" why not say "Jordan Peterson has a dependency on a drug that his doctor prescribed him?". There's a place for brevity, but this isn't it.

 

[james.miller]

I understand that but he's preaching about "the rules", he's writing about "the rules" and making a shed load of money doing so. Because he's clearly not adhering to his own rules that, for me somewhat invalidates the whole thing. I'll be the first to admit I don't know that much about him or his material though so perhaps I'm misreading it.

Peterson never claimed to be perfect and just because he gone through some hardship, which, congratulations if you havent done so, doesnt mean his message is any less important. He isn't writing law, hes trying to help people better themselves. To judge him for a dependence he ended up with after a prescription from a doctor is quite unfair IMO.

 

[Gornall]

I understand that but he's preaching about "the rules", he's writing about "the rules" and making a shed load of money doing so. Because he's clearly not adhering to his own rules that, for me somewhat invalidates the whole thing. I'll be the first to admit I don't know that much about him or his material though so perhaps I'm misreading it.

One of the things that annoys me most on public forums. People wanting to be part of a conversation, and passing some kind of judgement whilst admitting in the same post they don't know much, if anything about the subject

By their name? Why do you need to affix a label? Especially when the one you're opting for doesn't tell the whole story. Rather than saying "Jordan Peterson is a <label>" why not say "Jordan Peterson has a dependency on a drug that his doctor prescribed him?". There's a place for brevity, but this isn't it.

I do feel the same somewhat, the bluntness of "drug addict" in some circumstances almost feels unnecessary even if it's technically a correct description. Much is the way with many things in life I guess.

 

[Roar87]

It's a propaganda technique known as "labelling" with the intention of discrediting him by using the broad brush of "drug addict", you wouldn't reasonably describe someone suffering from chronic pain and using a Doctor prescribed opiate to deal with the symptoms as a drug addict. The phrase drug addict is most often used to describe someone taking drugs that aren't medically required, people would rightly take offense to being labelled a drug addict for using drugs that have been prescribed by a Doctor, but yes let's pretend we're ignorant to that fact.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labelling#Labelling_in_argumentation

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

He was prescribed drugs by a Doctor, then struggled with coming off them because they're physically addictive. Is everyone using prescription drugs now being labelled a drug addict?

It's a propaganda technique known as "labelling" with the intention of discrediting him by using the broad brush of "drug addict", you wouldn't reasonably describe someone suffering from chronic pain and using a Doctor prescribed opiate to deal with the symptoms as a drug addict. The phrase drug addict is most often used to describe someone taking drugs that aren't medically required, people would rightly take offense to being labelled a drug addict for using drugs that have been prescribed by a Doctor, but yes let's pretend we're ignorant to that fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labelling#Labelling_in_argumentation

So anyone who is addicted to painkillers/opiates when they were originally prescribed by a doctor isn't a drug addict? When do they become an addict? When the doctor withdrawals them because they admit they may have a problem with addiction and they then are forced to turn to illicit ways of obtaining painkillers/opiates because of their addiction and the pain they suffer? That would make a massive percentage of the people suffering in the opiate crisis in the US not drug addicts when I think they would probably describe themselves as drug addicts. Also a lot of people who become drug addicts on your definition of the word start using drugs because of mental health issues or develop a problem as an escape or copping mechanism or because they have a genetic disposition for addiction. Be it drugs or alcohol.

I think we have moved away from your labelling partly due to the opiate crisis and that now "regular people" are caught in addiction in large numbers. The shame needs to be removed from it because in so many cases there is an underlying health issue that caused the addiction.

I do wonder how the hell he fell into this trap though. I suffered for around 3 years of terrible panic attacks and anxiety in my early 30s. It got so bad I didn't want to leave the house as getting caught outside with an attack was too horrific to contemplate. I begged my GP for help and in the end they did with SSRI and CBT but they flatly refused to prescribe any benzo because of the terrible addictive nature of the drug and also the even worse and dangerous effects from withdrawal. That was nearly 20 years ago. He must have been aware of these dangers and yet he still travelled that road.

If they can't come off them then by definition they are drug addict, doesn't matter how they got into them in the first place.

He's addicted to drugs therefore a drug addict, very simple.

Calling someone a drug addict doesn't mean i have no sympathy for their situation though, i'd never judge someone who became addicted to drugs because they were trying to cope with a tragedy.

Exactly this ^^ a tragedy, pain, mental illness, what ever their reason. I wonder if this was some person on the street addicted to heroin who's back story might be one of mental illness and/or abuse would people be so generous in their labelling then?

 

[i-bert]

So you lot really can't see the difference between labelling someone a "drug addict" and someone who developes an addiction to prescribed drugs?

Wow.

 

[rxodium]

If you are addicted to drugs, you are a drug addict. It's that simple. You can attempt to word your way around it as much as you like, because you don't like the fact that it's aimed at someone you admire, but it ultimately doesn't mean **** and doesn't change the fact that drug addict means addicted to drugs and Jordan Peterson is a drug addict, so much so, that he got to the point were coming off those drugs have now left him severely damaged.

 

[i-bert]

I know what it means, I just wouldn't call him one out of respect.

 

[ExRayTed]

If you are addicted to drugs, you are a drug addict. It's that simple. You can attempt to word your way around it as much as you like, because you don't like the fact that it's aimed at someone you admire, but it ultimately doesn't mean **** and doesn't change the fact that drug addict means addicted to drugs and Jordan Peterson is a drug addict, so much so, that he got to the point were coming off those drugs have now left him severely damaged.

This is a rudimentary understanding of addiction. Oh don't get me wrong, I think I know where you're coming from but there is a world of difference between drug 'dependence', where the body needs the drug to function normally and drug 'addiction', which goes way beyond simple dependence.

Here's a youtube video you may have seen before - addiction is caused by more than a dependence on drugs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8AHODc6phg

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

So you lot really can't see the difference between labelling someone a "drug addict" and someone who developes an addiction to prescribed drugs?

Wow.

Wait what? Am I missing something as that sentence makes no sense. Are you saying we can't see the difference between a drug addict and someone who develops an addiction from prescribed drugs? Does it really matter how they got there? Do you always take the time to consider how every drug addict got there? Seems we are being accused of judging someone but there is a judgement already happening. Drug addicts are drug addicts, they have a problem with drug addiction and they ALL require help no matter how they got there. It almost appears JP is getting special treatment because of who he is.

 

[ExRayTed]

So is someone who is diabetic classed as a drug addict because they're dependent on insulin? My wife has restless leg syndrome and is now dependent on prescription drugs to help her - is she a drug addict? There is a difference between dependence and addiction. Saying that anyone who is dependent on drugs is an 'addict' is misleading and could be damaging. Benzodiazepines are prescribed to combat a condition. That they are very difficult and dangerous drugs to stop taking does not make someone who is using the drug as prescribed 'an addict'

 

[LOAM]

One of the things that annoys me most on public forums. People wanting to be part of a conversation, and passing some kind of judgement whilst admitting in the same post they don't know much, if anything about the subject .

I don't care, I'm not here to please you or keep you happy. The reason I don't know much about him is because I managed to listen to around 30 minutes of his arse waffle before realising he was just another cocknugget spouting crap to gain a fast buck. The fact he's taken "your" money and quaffed a load of drugs, wrecking his life whilst simultaneously telling everyone else how to live pretty much confirmed my initial suspicions.

I didn't want to actually say that though because I know how easily you all get offended.

 

[Skunkworks]

So you lot really can't see the difference between labelling someone a "drug addict" and someone who developes an addiction to prescribed drugs?

Wow.

He knows exactly what he's doing, it's just the usual deliberate misrepresentation.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

So is someone who is diabetic classed as a drug addict because they're dependent on insulin? My wife has restless leg syndrome and is now dependent on prescription drugs to help her - is she a drug addict? There is a difference between dependence and addiction. Saying that anyone who is dependent on drugs is an 'addict' is misleading and could be damaging. Benzodiazepines are prescribed to combat a condition. That they are very difficult and dangerous drugs to stop taking does not make someone who is using the drug as prescribed 'an addict'

They are nothing like the same at all. Does your wife get a feeling of well being, even a euphoria from her restless leg medication? Does a diabetic from insulin? No they don't and that is not why they continue to take them.

 

[i-bert]

Wait what? Am I missing something as that sentence makes no sense. Are you saying we can't see the difference between a drug addict and someone who develops an addiction from prescribed drugs? Does it really matter how they got there? Do you always take the time to consider how every drug addict got there? Seems we are being accused of judging someone but there is a judgement already happening. Drug addicts are drug addicts, they have a problem with drug addiction and they ALL require help no matter how they got there. It almost appears JP is getting special treatment because of who he is.

Not at all. I just see a massive difference in the labels used, even though they have the same definition.

I suppose it comes down to morals.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Not at all. I just see a massive difference in the labels used, even though they have the same definition.

I suppose it comes down to morals.

So you are making a moral judgement on all the other drug addicts? What about all the opiate addicts in the US now that started on prescribed opiates but are now buying heroin and fentanyl when the doctors panicked and withdrew their opiate prescriptions? Are they drug addicts or like JP just drug dependants? Some of them are now resorting to crime and prostitution to pay for their drugs because they aren't fortunate enough to have the money to buy the drugs their dependance requires. Do you cut them the same slack you are cutting JP?

 

[i-bert]

So you are making a moral judgement on all the other drug addicts? What about all the opiate addicts in the US now that started on prescribed opiates but are now buying heroin and fentanyl when the doctors panicked and withdrew their opiate prescriptions? Are they drug addicts or like JP just drug dependants? Some of them are now resorting to crime and prostitution to pay for their drugs because they aren't fortunate enough to have the money to buy the drugs their dependance requires. Do you cut them the same slack you are cutting JP?

I'm making a generalisation because most drug addicts are self inflicted, and the label creates an image of a certain stereotype. I just wouldn't use that label for certain people. Alcoholics for example, and people in JPs situation.

 

[Roar87]

Using drug addict as a perojative and then pretending like you aren't lol

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I'm making a generalisation because most drug addicts are self inflicted, and the label creates an image of a certain stereotype. I just wouldn't use that label for certain people. Alcoholics for example, and people in JPs situation.

You don't consider alcoholics drug addicts? And how is their situation not self inflicted? Maybe its time some of you gave up that sterotype.

So @Roar87 is trying to paint those of us that say he's a drug addict as the ones with the problem here, I wonder if he'd call some drug addict he saw living on the street what he is, a drug addict regardless of how he got there. I also wonder if this was a prominent person on the left of similar standing whether you'd be jumping in to defend him. You see I'm not judging the guy, millions of people have addiction problems, who the hell am I to judge them when I haven't walked in their shoes. I've not read his books, self help books don't really appeal to me, although I've watched a few of his debates. I like some of what he says and some of it I don't. However trying to say he's not an addict when he's addicted to a drug that gives the user a sense of euphoria is ridiculous. If it was a drug that didn't but was horrific to stop taking due to withdrawal you might have a point but its not.