Caroline Flack RIP

[SexyGreyFox]

You mean shut down free speech?

That makes very little sense, how do they define relentlessly bully?
I’m sure plenty of politicians would love it if all their negative press coverage stopped.
What about people like Harvey Weinstein? Do they have to stop writing about him because he might get stressed out about it?
Reporting on people as a result of their criminal actions is absolutely fair game tbh...

Well I haven't signed it if that's what you're wondering.
Just putting it out there.

 

[SpeedFreak]

There is a difference between reporting and smearing, no? Reporting is in the public interest, but the press had seemingly made their mind up here in the rush to destroy her career having built her up in the first place, which is their modus operandi.

We’ll never know what would have happened in court, but it was largely immaterial at this point, at least as far as her career was concerned.

No one deserves to be tried by media.

I broadly agree when it comes to Joe Bloggs, however the known facts were that the CPS were continuing to press charges despite the "victim" withdrawing their complaint. This says a lot about the case and given she at times has been in the employ of the BBC, a state funded organisation, there was a valid arguement that discussion/reporting was in the public interest. There is mass hypocrisy in the media as had she been male and the whole saga reversed, even without conviction she would not be eulogised in the same way.

 

[Dolph]

The same thing has happened with Caroline Flack though, there have been articles regarding her alleged misdemeanours.

Also, Douglas wasn't driven to kill himself by the actions of the press and social media. No matter how justified or otherwise you think those actions were, that deserves a debate. The manner of her death makes this deserving of consideration and sympathy.

I will freely admit to having very little sympathy for those who use violence or coercion towards their partners, irrespective of gender when it catches up with them. This extends to those who don't want to face up to the consequences of their actions.

I will also acknowledge that it may be too close to home and I may be swinging too far as a result.

The simple question I ask, if Caroline flack had been the victim, and her partner the abuser (she confessed remember, although subsequently pleaded not guilty) who committed suicide, would people still be demanding a change in the law.

 

[One More Solo]

I broadly agree when it comes to Joe Bloggs, however the known facts were that the CPS were continuing to press charges despite the "victim" withdrawing their complaint. This says a lot about the case and given she at times has been in the employ of the BBC, a state funded organisation, there was a valid arguement that discussion/reporting was in the public interest. There is mass hypocrisy in the media as had she been male and the whole saga reversed, even without conviction she would not be eulogised in the same way.

I agree reporting (and pursuing the charges, FWIW) is in the public interest, but my view is some of what was being printed went beyond reporting and amounted to a character assassination based on what little information was in the public domain.

Would you trust a showbiz hack and their editor to know how to report on what was the precursor to a live court case? There’s a reason papers usually send two different people to stand outside courts and bars.

 

[stockhausen]

As when any celebrity dies their is always a massive overreaction how people carried on when Diana died was laughable crying and wailing about someone dieing you don't even know personally and she was no saint either get a grip people.

I am not quite sure that the "Celebrity" status of these two examples are comparable.

A week ago, very few Adults in Great Britain would have recognised either the name or the face of the apparently very disturbed Ms. Flack and next to none elsewhere. The mother of the future king of Great Britain on the other hand would have been instantly recognised by most British people and a very significant number from elsewhere in the world.

However, I entirely agree that people's wailing and gnashing of teeth over the passing of each and every Z-list nonentity is at best, somewhat "odd", no matter how sad for their family and friends.

 

[One More Solo]

I will freely admit to having very little sympathy for those who use violence or coercion towards their partners, irrespective of gender when it catches up with them. This extends to those who don't want to face up to the consequences of their actions.

I will also acknowledge that it may be too close to home and I may be swinging too far as a result.

The simple question I ask, if Caroline flack had been the victim, and her partner the abuser (she confessed remember, although subsequently pleaded not guilty) who committed suicide, would people still be demanding a change in the law.

There are no circumstances in which it is ok for someone to be hounded by the press to the point they take their own lives, regardless of who they are or what they’ve done. As I said, no one should be tried by media.

 

[Dolph]

I broadly agree when it comes to Joe Bloggs, however the known facts were that the CPS were continuing to press charges despite the "victim" withdrawing their complaint. This says a lot about the case and given she at times has been in the employ of the BBC, a state funded organisation, there was a valid arguement that discussion/reporting was in the public interest. There is mass hypocrisy in the media as had she been male and the whole saga reversed, even without conviction she would not be eulogised in the same way.

That's standard in domestic violence cases if the evidential threshold can be met anyway. It was a change driven predominantly by the women's rights movement reflecting the impact the impact that abuse can have on the behaviour of the abused, and that the violent partner presents a danger independent of whether the victim acknowledges it or not. In part this was due to a history of inaction where abused partners refused to press charges and the situations escalated until the result was murder or severe, life changing injuries.

The thing that many people don't understand about abusive relationships is that they are not simple. Most people think an abused partner will react the way they would, but the reality is they won't. The biggest mistake people make is that they forget that love isnt rational. You can still love an abusive partner. It doesn't mean you want to be abused, but it does mean you dimish and excuse their behaviour, that you accept that they will change, even though they haven't done so every other time they have promised to, or even that it's at least in part your fault, even if you'd advise anyone else differently.

There is a limit to how much the law can protect people from themselves, but that doesn't mean it should not even try.

 

[Dolph]

There are no circumstances in which it is ok for someone to be hounded by the press to the point they take their own lives, regardless of who they are or what they’ve done. As I said, no one should be tried by media.

If that was indeed the cause of her suicide. Suicide while awaiting trial is not unheard of, and attempts or threats of suicide are a known method of coercive control.

 

[Mekrel]

I can't believe some of what I've read in this thread.

Whilst it's sad someone chose to end their life, there's no way the CPS should be criticised for trying to bring the case to trial. It's well documented that victims of domestic abuse will not want to press charges for many reasons such as a misplaced feeling of love, or fear of repercussions. Nobody can justify not bringing Caroline Flack to justice without justifying it for ordinary members of the public - otherwise you're claiming specialist treatment should have been given in this case because she's female, a celebrity or a combination of both. Quite frankly, I've read some ridiculous statements by Caroline Flack's management company and her friend, Laura Whitmore.

Laura Whitemore:

Caroline loved to love. That's all she wanted. Which is why a show like Love Island was important to her, because the show is about finding love, friendship, having a laugh. The problem wasn't the show. The show... is loving and caring and safe and protected.

Yes, it's caring, safe and protected which is why two contestants took their lives last year and only after the fact did the show start offering support for future contestants.

Also the show is about finding love? Hardly - it's a step ladder to fame for narcissistic pillocks that happens to make a production company and ITV lots of money by exploiting that desire. It should be canned just like Jeremy Kyle was.

Francis Ridley, of Money Talent Management (love the fact Money is in the name of their business, like they care about any of their clients apart from the money they make from them)

The Crown Prosecution Service pursued this when they knew not only how very vulnerable Caroline was but also that the alleged victim did not support the prosecution and had disputed the CPS version of events.

'Alleged' - It's pretty clear he was the victim of assault. I guess you could say alleged is the correct term to use considering she hasn't been found guilty by jury and only charged, but let's face it - if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

 

[One More Solo]

If that was indeed the cause of her suicide. Suicide while awaiting trial is not unheard of, and attempts or threats of suicide are a known method of coercive control.

Indeed, and we’ll never know why. But whatever the cause, the amount of pressure the media put on certain celebrities (more often than not women) is not acceptable, nor in the public interest, and it’s not definitely not limited to cases like this where the subject is alleged to have done something criminal.

 

[One More Solo]

'Alleged' - It's pretty clear he was the victim of assault. I guess you could say alleged is the correct term to use considering she hasn't been found guilty by jury and only charged, but let's face it - if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

And this is exactly the attitude I mean, the sheer presumptive arrogance that you know better despite only being party to 5% of the facts. Imagine living your life, and I’m not just talking about Caroline Flack here, having to listen to the amplified opinions of randomers who have all the answers because it’s just so simple.

 

[Mekrel]

And this is exactly the attitude I mean, the sheer presumptive arrogance that you know better despite only being party to 5% of the facts. Imagine living your life, and I’m not just talking about Caroline Flack here, having to listen to the amplified opinions of randomers who have all the answers because it’s just so simple.

So do you believe an assault didn't take place? Surely he was a victim of an assault, no?

 

[banbom44]

I can't believe some of what I've read in this thread.

Whilst it's sad someone chose to end their life, there's no way the CPS should be criticised for trying to bring the case to trial. It's well documented that victims of domestic abuse will not want to press charges for many reasons such as a misplaced feeling of love, or fear of repercussions. Nobody can justify not bringing Caroline Flack to justice without justifying it for ordinary members of the public - otherwise you're claiming specialist treatment should have been given in this case because she's female, a celebrity or a combination of both. Quite frankly, I've read some ridiculous statements by Caroline Flack's management company and her friend, Laura Whitmore.

Laura Whitemore:


Yes, it's caring, safe and protected which is why two contestants took their lives last year and only after the fact did the show start offering support for future contestants.

Also the show is about finding love? Hardly - it's a step ladder to fame for narcissistic pillocks that happens to make a production company and ITV lots of money by exploiting that desire. It should be canned just like Jeremy Kyle was.

Francis Ridley, of Money Talent Management (love the fact Money is in the name of their business, like they care about any of their clients apart from the money they make from them)


'Alleged' - It's pretty clear he was the victim of assault. I guess you could say alleged is the correct term to use considering she hasn't been found guilty by jury and only charged, but let's face it - if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

i know its a steeping stone to further their careers as if they are going in there for love they want more followers on instagram and a career on TV.

 

[banbom44]

If that was indeed the cause of her suicide. Suicide while awaiting trial is not unheard of, and attempts or threats of suicide are a known method of coercive control.

I think a lot of people commit suicide with a ill show them mentality but looking at the facts of this case the CPS were right in going after a conviction they had a lot of evidence and thought it was right that she should have been prosecuted she was even kicking off in the police station and had to be restrained if it had been a male celebrity on a woman imagine the outcry double standards.

 

[One More Solo]

So do you believe an assault didn't take place? Surely he was a victim of an assault, no?

Until the court has delivered its verdict, he’s an alleged victim. That is how the system works, and it should be respected.

 

[stockhausen]

Until the court has delivered its verdict, he’s an alleged victim. . . .

So the CPS were quite right to persevere with the prosecution then?

 

[dowie]

Until the court has delivered its verdict, he’s an alleged victim. That is how the system works, and it should be respected.

Pretty clear that she did assault him though - there was sufficient evidence for a prosecution from the CPS without needing him as a witness - they had the 999 call, the physical evidence of the assault and the body cam footage of the aftermath.

No one has claimed that she didn't do it or that it didn't happen rather he's simply said he didn't want her prosecuted.

Trying to deny reality because there hasn't been a trial is rather silly in this instance, she's dead now, there will be no trial - the trial simply concerns whether she gets found guilty of a particular offence and potentially punished for it.

 

[jpaul]

Also the show is about finding love? Hardly - it's a step ladder to fame for narcissistic pillocks that happens to make a production company and ITV lots of money by exploiting that desire. It should be canned just like Jeremy Kyle was.

yes - tv companies need to recognise they are contributing to the same mental illness problems attributed to the other forms of social media, the search for the elusive 15 minutes of fame ...apparently they suspended the show for one night.

 

[Mekrel]

yes - tv companies need to recognise they are contributing to the same mental illness problems attributed to the other forms of social media, the search for the elusive 15 minutes of fame ...apparently they suspended the show for one night.

I honestly think society is in a downwards spiral because of social media and reality TV. Facebook is a cesspool of people trying to sell their lives in order to keep up with the Jones' and to show people they're successful, popular, healthy and fit - being seen as these things are more important than simply being happy. Twitter? A platform of hate because giving people a platform now appears to people that they have permission to share their vitriol. At the same time, you have people becoming more and more sensitive because of how liberal the world is becoming where you can no longer have an opinion without it upsetting someone/some group.

For example: Look at the absolute hatred thrown at Sharon Davies for defending women's sport. This is a former female athlete who is trying to protect other biological women from the unfair advantages that transgender women have, she isn't saying that transgender people shouldn't be, or be viewed as women but that's exactly what she's accused of because people want to shut her down. So basically we can't protect women's sport now because you can't offend transgender people. Just so it's clear - I have zero issues if someone wishes to identify as another gender and I'll happily address them as such but conversations about protecting women's sport can't be shut down.

It really is a bad combination - people feel like they have to put themselves out there for acceptance, but are so sensitive because they've been taught that everyone else has to bend to their view of the world. Madness, absolute madness.

 

[VincentHanna]

I will freely admit to having very little sympathy for those who use violence or coercion towards their partners, irrespective of gender when it catches up with them. This extends to those who don't want to face up to the consequences of their actions.

I will also acknowledge that it may be too close to home and I may be swinging too far as a result.

The simple question I ask, if Caroline flack had been the victim, and her partner the abuser (she confessed remember, although subsequently pleaded not guilty) who committed suicide, would people still be demanding a change in the law.

I actually agree with you Dolph, if the shoe was on the other foot there is no way the narrative would be the same.