Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

[div0]

I've been lurking this thread for a few weeks now and been really impressed with the help and advice on offer - so thought I'd ask for some specific tips on my own situation.

Background

I last 'seriously' ran in 2013 and at that point I was pretty fit, but certainly not following any proper training plan. As a general rule I was probably running 3-4 times per week (at most) and putting in one long run (13-18 miles) per week as part of marathon training.

I was pretty happy with what I achieved that year and have managed to dig out a few key times that I'd kept noted down:

• 5km - 19:44 (unofficial, training)
• 10km - 41:10 (EMF 10km, hilly)
• 13.1km - 55:31 (Kilomathon)
• HM - 1:39:30 (ERnR HM)
• 20miles - 2:52:01 (unofficial, training)
• M - 3:26:54 (Loch Ness)

Since then, I had several years of very little running at all - including 2 kids and an ankle (football) injury. I made a few half attempts to get back into running over past few years, but reocurring calf problems which I attributed to the ankle injury left me somewhat demotivated. The first 2-3 outings would usually be fine and then my calf would suddenly go again and I'd go back to resting which would usually turn into several weeks without running. Midway through last year I decided to really work on 2 things:

1. Increasing number of 'running days' between injuries (no matter how short/slow each run was)
2. Reducing the number of days 'not running' following an injury (which previously had extended to weeks)

I'm pleased to say this seems to have worked and I've now been running pretty well since Nov/Dec time. Prior to this latest spell of bad weather I was getting out maybe twice midweek and once or twice at weekends. The last 2 weeks I've slipped back to once per week, on a Saturday only. A typical run just now is about 12km in just over 1 hour, including 3 hilly sections (about 400m total elevation gain) - at the end of this I'm not completely done in but I know I've put a shift in. The uphill sections do cause me to break into a brief walk, although I'm getting closer to maintaining a constant slow jog on the ascent.


Goals

Despite now being 7 years older and pushing close to 40, I'd really like to beat all of the above PBs and start to focus more on ultra distance and hill running (mountain marathon). If anything I feel more confident about being able to match my marathon and HM times than I do about my 5k.


Really appreciate any specific advice anyone has. The things I've picked up from this thread (hopefully correctly) as well as some questions are:

• Volume is key - running often is more important than pushing hard on each run
• Pace should be such that you can hold a conversation
• 80/20 book is on my list to read
• How to determine right distance/effort to set a good baseline weekly routine? - ie should I look to do reduce the time it's currently taking me to do ~12km so I am doing that sort of distance every day, or should I reduce the distance, or a combination of both?
• Gels etc - have never used before even for the marathon. Is it worth trying some to see what works, or is that something to leave until I get back to running closer to 20 miles?

Would really like to get myself into some good habits now. I've been going back through the history of this thread trying to pick out the key bits of info, but there's a lot of posts to go through - so if anyone cares to offer some guidance it would be very much appreciated.

 

[Dup]

Managed my run. Didn’t end up using any of the waterproof stuff I’d bought but hopefully it all comes in in the future!

Course got cut short to avoid a few flooded/heavily exposed areas so worked out around 16.5 miles. I really need to work on longer runs as I rarely go over 10-12 and it really felt it towards the end. Especially running through boggy mud which was energy sapping.

Decided to keep the Fenix 6 and so glad I did. I’d have had no hope Navigating without it!

Well done Mart! How you feeling today?

Did just shy of 15 miles yesterday, nice to get some miles under me for a change. Aiming to hopefully do Ingleborugh this weekend as my weekday running is now limited.

 

[The Darkness]

• Volume is key - running often is more important than pushing hard on each run

• Pace should be such that you can hold a conversation

• 80/20 book is on my list to read

• How to determine right distance/effort to set a good baseline weekly routine? - ie should I look to do reduce the time it's currently taking me to do ~12km so I am doing that sort of distance every day, or should I reduce the distance, or a combination of both?

• Gels etc - have never used before even for the marathon. Is it worth trying some to see what works, or is that something to leave until I get back to running closer to 20 miles?

I think this is a great summary of the thread! I was very similar to your previous running form and wanted to beat my pb's. I shifted from 3-4 runs/week to running most days (as below) and smashed all my pbs within a year (Marathon went from 3 hr 27 to 2 hr 59; I'm 48). My advice:

Start to increase the frequency of your runs, but do it gradually. I'd probably start by doing half your current distance but run twice a week. Then after two weeks or so add a further run of the same distance. Keep doing this until you are running every day (or 6/week) and feeling good on it. Once this feels easy, gradually increase the time (distance) for each run, and work your long run up to 1hr 45 ish. Your long run doesnt really need to go much beyond this until you are well into marathon training phase. As you get stronger you can introduce one workout (interval/hill sess) /week but as you know these are very stressful so take care.

Food wise yes it is a good idea to try gels before a marathon, but like you suggest I don't think you need to worry about it until you are running 2-3hr long runs in the run up to a race. I now use the cliff shots as they about the only thing I can chew after 20miles....

Enjoy your running again and as you know, patience is the key. Cheers.

 

[Ian_Eb]

I tried the Gu gels and they were really hard to manage unless I drank loads as well. The SiS ones I always found loads easier to manage as they were runnier (for want of a better description)

I think you have to try several so as to find one that suits you.

Also, the Lucozade ones they dish out at London were decidedly repulsive! (ymmv obviously )

 

[Martynt74]

Well done Mart! How you feeling today?

Did just shy of 15 miles yesterday, nice to get some miles under me for a change. Aiming to hopefully do Ingleborugh this weekend as my weekday running is now limited.

Not too bad to be honest, a little stiff on stairs/getting up from my desk but generally alright.

Even my ankle which felt like it swelled up during the run is feeling better than it normally does.

Probably helps that i got the hip pain and so couldn't push into leg destroying territory!

Got the Physio tonight for results from my "running analysis" and then will aim to get out for an easy recovery run tomorrow. Did have a sports massage booked in for Wednesday, but i've cancelled it to help pay off the watch/clothing!

What's the Ingleborough? An actual race or just you running up around there?

 

[SPG]

@div0

Step 1 : Buy a heart-rate monitor and a watch you can pair it to at a basic level, loads of second hand watches around that will do the trick really well and HRM straps are quite cheap as well. Polar and Garmin work really well and give more data than HRM if you pair them with a watch from the same manufacturer but check with what your watch works on Bluetooth or Ant+ some may even take both.

Step 2 : Work our your max heartrate the 200-age works really well for starting out then after a 5-6 weeks of exercise take a self styled lactic test (embrace the pain) and then you can sort out your HRM zones a little more accurate for you.

Step 3 : Start slow, avoiding injury is the total focus, this way you can get in more volume at a low intensity and hit your ultra goals.

I used HRM in the past when i was much much fitter and just ditched it, but now i am the wrong side of 48 HRM training has been a revelation in terms of fitness and staying injury free.

Just need the weather to go nice so can get outside again (Yes i am a total wuss and will not in the cold in darkness or even if its raining) this is what treadmills are for and i can ogle at younger woman that will always be way out of my league

 

[div0]

I think this is a great summary of the thread! I was very similar to your previous running form and wanted to beat my pb's. I shifted from 3-4 runs/week to running most days (as below) and smashed all my pbs within a year (Marathon went from 3 hr 27 to 2 hr 59; I'm 48).

Wow, I'm very impressed! I thought even aiming to get down to sub 3h15 in next 2 years was being very ambitious.

My advice:

Start to increase the frequency of your runs, but do it gradually. I'd probably start by doing half your current distance but run twice a week. Then after two weeks or so add a further run of the same distance. Keep doing this until you are running every day (or 6/week) and feeling good on it. Once this feels easy, gradually increase the time (distance) for each run, and work your long run up to 1hr 45 ish. Your long run doesnt really need to go much beyond this until you are well into marathon training phase. As you get stronger you can introduce one workout (interval/hill sess) /week but as you know these are very stressful so take care.

I think I'll try and do at least two midweek runs of 30-45 minutes and one at at weekend of 45-60 minutes, as this is roughly what I'd been doing pre-Ciara/Dennis. Once I've got back into doing this for 2 weeks I'll aim to add an extra day in until I'm running 6x per week.

 

[Martynt74]

Also don't worry about your age, most of the quicker runners i see are in their 40's

I'm hoping when i get to that age i might actually have started getting faster!

 

[div0]

@div0

Step 1 : Buy a heart-rate monitor and a watch you can pair it to at a basic level, loads of second hand watches around that will do the trick really well and HRM straps are quite cheap as well. Polar and Garmin work really well and give more data than HRM if you pair them with a watch from the same manufacturer but check with what your watch works on Bluetooth or Ant+ some may even take both.

Step 2 : Work our your max heartrate the 200-age works really well for starting out then after a 5-6 weeks of exercise take a self styled lactic test (embrace the pain) and then you can sort out your HRM zones a little more accurate for you.

I recently bought an Amazfit Bip. I'm not sure what the accuracy of the heart rate monitoring side of things is, as it's definitely at the budget end of running watches - but it says my average heartrate has been around 150 on most of my runs, never peaking above 168 on any of them. For me, 200-age is 162 so I'm guessing maybe my watch is measuring reasonably accurately?

Will need to look more into heart rate zones, as I had seen on here a lot of mention of Zone 2 - but no idea yet what that is. I guess that will help guide whether I'm currently putting in too much effort or not?

Step 3 : Start slow, avoiding injury is the total focus, this way you can get in more volume at a low intensity and hit your ultra goals.

I used HRM in the past when i was much much fitter and just ditched it, but now i am the wrong side of 48 HRM training has been a revelation in terms of fitness and staying injury free.

Just need the weather to go nice so can get outside again (Yes i am a total wuss and will not in the cold in darkness or even if its raining) this is what treadmills are for and i can ogle at younger woman that will always be way out of my league

Haha, I've actually been quite happy out in the cold, dark and wet - it's been the wind lately that's driven me indoors.

 

[Martynt74]

I'm pretty sure Max HR is 220-Age

So your max would be 178, which if most of your runs are 150 that sounds about right.

I've seen similar readings from a Garmin, Apple Watch, Fitbit and Xiaomi MiBand 4 so i'd say they're all in a ballpark without getting a proper strap.

 

[Ian_Eb]

i used this to get my current zones.

http://www.briancalkins.com/HeartRate.htm

 

[The Darkness]

Yes get a strap. The optical ones are ok for resting rate but for workouts (in particular intervals) they don't cut it.

The 80/20 book will walk you through z2. Before it arrives just run at a pace where you can speak in full sentences.

Zone 2 will feel slow at first (for me I need to keep HR < 135) but with time the pace will increase. A lot!

Cheers

 

[Martynt74]

That’s an issue I have. Even a regular run at what feels like a very easy pace (10:30/mile) I sit around 150bpm which puts me in Zone 3 but i honestly don’t think I could physically run any slower!

Even at what I consider a moderate pace which doesn’t leave me out of breath I’m at 170bpm which isn’t far off max.
My HR just seems broken!

 

[The Darkness]

That’s an issue I have. Even a regular run at what feels like a very easy pace (10:30/mile) I sit around 150bpm which puts me in Zone 3 but i honestly don’t think I could physically run any slower!

Even at what I consider a moderate pace which doesn’t leave me out of breath I’m at 170bpm which isn’t far off max.
My HR just seems broken!

I have some friends like this, for many different reasons. For some, it's their weight. They are 95 kg ish and your heart simply has to work really hard to move that around. For others they haven't built up enough easy miles over the years to give them a strong aerobic base. And some of them just have really high max heart rates!

Today I ran just over 8 miles at 7 min 30s /mile and was half way between z1 and z2 (130 bpm). Top end of z2 is now around 7m 15 s/mile. Go back two years and top end of z2 was 8m 30 s/mile.

Cheers

 

[SPG]

Sorry yes 220 if you know your resting heartrate you can google a slightly more accurate method.

Yep HR is really hard to get into, hard to go slow and think its actaully doing something my zone 2 is 128-142 i try and sit at 135 really easy on the treadmill but sweat long the sweat

 

[Ian_Eb]

That’s an issue I have. Even a regular run at what feels like a very easy pace (10:30/mile) I sit around 150bpm which puts me in Zone 3 but i honestly don’t think I could physically run any slower!

Even at what I consider a moderate pace which doesn’t leave me out of breath I’m at 170bpm which isn’t far off max.
My HR just seems broken!

This is me also. It is getting better, but 130 is not happening at the moment.

 

[Martynt74]

I have some friends like this, for many different reasons. For some, it's their weight. They are 95 kg ish and your heart simply has to work really hard to move that around. For others they haven't built up enough easy miles over the years to give them a strong aerobic base. And some of them just have really high max heart rates!

Cheers

Yeah. That’s probably likely as I’m now around 101kg and that’s after losing 7kg since Christmas and having ran regularly for around 2 years. Also at over 6ft I presume it takes more to push it all round me!

I do plan to try and do more high intensity stuff, although will probably focus more on hills than pace to do this to minimize impact forces. Although I’ve been saying this for a while!

Interestingly this watch can supposedly measure VO2 max. Which it states as being in the worst band. Although I suspect a lot of it’s readings aren’t based on enough data yet.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

What would the forum recommend for a 6 week plan for a half marathon?
Signed up to Reading half, but not run any real distance for a few years now.
2 hours is doable for a noob right?

 

[Martynt74]

Ooof that's tricky. Suppose it depends on your base level of fitness at the moment. I've been running years and would probably still struggle to do a sub 2 hour half. But i'm slow and fat. Some people could probably bash it out without any effort (i hate those people!)

I'd probably just try and get out and run for about 30 minutes in the next day or so, then come back and let us know how you got on. Probably easier to come up with a plan once you know the starting point, but the key thing would be to not over exert yourself and increase the chance of injury.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

I will try a 5k tonight and see what I can do, will report back