Fix it rather than flinging it in land-fill?

[stockhausen]

Francesco Calo has been learning how to fix his broken TV at a repair event in Tooting, south London.

It might seem a simplistic idea - but repair initiatives such as this one could be part of a solution to the growing amount of electrical and electronic waste.

This waste is becoming a huge problem. The 50 million tonnes of e-waste generated every year will more than double to 110 million tonnes by 2050, making it the fastest growing waste stream in the world, according to the author of a UN report.

Now this idea of "Repair events" sounds inspired - and obvious - why just Tooting?.

How often does one see modern TVs and PCs dumped at alleged "recycling" centres? Most of these devices are substantially modular and surely they can often be repaired?

 

[gitbags]

While encouraging people to have items repaired instead of replaced is always a good thing, I'm not too sure it's a great idea encouraging people with limited to no knowledge of electronics to have a crack at stripping mains appliances.

Donkeys years ago it was the norm to have your items repaired, but as people have become reliant on cheap electronic goods its often uneconomical to repair them when they fail. If the manufacturer has spares available to begin with.

 

[adolf hamster]

i tend to follow the logic of "i have a broken thing, if i try to fix it and fail, it will still be a broken thing, if i succeed i will no longer have a broken thing"

however, as noble as the sentiment of make do and mend is, there are a few problems when you try to apply it to modern products.

- is it easy to open? try and crack open a modern waterproof phone for example and you'll find it's not so easy, a lot of modern manufacturing focuses on rapid assembly rather than convenient dissassembly, for example the ubiquitous plastic pop-tab rather than using screws.
- is it easy to identify the problem? used to be this wasn't so bad, when most of the components are mechanical it's generally possible to see the problem, not so easy when it's electronic and can be hard to detect even when you have the proper equipment, to say nothing of the knowledge needed to analyse it.
- is it possible to get a replacement part? which is pretty critical, a lot of things just don't have spare parts available and often even when they are they're often not available for straight up purchase

as gitbags says some of this is due to safety concerns- manufacturers don't want to make it easy for someone to injure themselves fixing their products, it's just bad pr.

 

[Mason-]

Now this idea of "Repair events" sounds inspired - and obvious - why just Tooting?.

How often does one see modern TVs and PCs dumped at alleged "recycling" centres? Most of these devices are substantially modular and surely they can often be repaired?

Even worse, mobile phones. Most people replace them because the batteries go, and funnily enough a lot of manufacturers make it incredibly difficult to replace them. The law going through in the US atm 'right to repair' should apply here too.

 

[Orionaut]

Most of the electronic stuff I have managed to repair over the last couple of years turned out to be down to dodgy electrolytic caps. Most other components in modern electronics tend to be pretty robust these days, But electrolytic caps do seem to have a service life, and not all that long a one either.

 

[rodenal]

It's good to at least consider repairing something before throwing in the bin, but the practicalities of end user ability, parts availability and parts price need to come in to consideration.

A couple of weeks ago our vacuum cleaner decided to end itself after around 6 years of life. When I looked at it the plastic brackets holding the brush head / brush motor in had melted away, bending the bar and destroying end bearings in the brush. It wasn't the easiest thing in the world to strip down despite it being fairly modular and me only being partly incompetent, then when I checked the cost of the obvious parts I would need it added up to near half the cost of a new one, hence it went in the bin anyway.

 

[stockhausen]

i tend to follow the logic of "i have a broken thing, if i try to fix it and fail, it will still be a broken thing, if i succeed i will no longer have a broken thing"
. . .

Admirable attitude, with which I can't argue. As a society we have become far too inclined simply to throw away things when they are no longer "leading edge".

. . .
as gitbags says some of this is due to safety concerns- manufacturers don't want to make it easy for someone to injure themselves fixing their products, it's just bad pr.

This is certainly one explanation - another explanation might be that manufacturers are keen that as soon as the warranty period is up you should give them some more money?


ps - I am quite surprised that this thread has got past the OcUK censors who would probably feel that one should "buy new" as often as possible - JOKE!

 

[gitbags]

Most of the electronic stuff I have managed to repair over the last couple of years turned out to be down to dodgy electrolytic caps. Most other components in modern electronics tend to be pretty robust these days, But electrolytic caps do seem to have a service life, and not all that long a one either.

You'll get a good service life from an electrolytic providing its specced right, and a decent brand. Most appliances are filled with the cheapest parts available with borderline specs that cook themselves after a few years.

 

[Hagar]

I used to keep a washing machine in service by fitting new carbon brushes sourced from a high street shop.

Now I ring up or email for service, the mechanic rocks up, one look and it's the motherboard (usually), I will need to order it, or I've got one in the van (hopefully).

 

[EssexBoy]

Nothing better than fixing items back to life again.

 

[Hades]

I realised a few years ago that our disposable culture contributes quite a bit to pollution, global warming and the use of limited resources. So I'll favour repairable items over non repairable ones where possible. Manufacturers don't want us to do that and will seal them, citing safety reasons. But their hope is that you will just throw it away and buy another from them. As mentioned above, there is a Right of Repair law being discussed in the US and I support it. Louis Rossman tried to dispell the myth that changing your own phone battery is dangerous (something which Apple states as one reason to not allow the sale of genuine batteries). But he literally smashed the battery with a hammer and didn't die.

As mentioned by @adolf hamster I will always try to fix it. Often I can't but I'm in no worse position for trying. Also the more you try, the more experience you get and can fix more complex items. Or find someone who can. Our washing machine is about 20 years old and has been repaired countless times. The last repairman told us not to replace it unless because it was so much better built than modern ones. Surely it must be near the end of its life but we will run it into the ground.

I will only buy repairable laptops such as Thinkpads for myself . My family all insist on iMacs and Macbooks although I did manage to replace the screen on my wife's iMac which she was just about to throw away.

 

[adam cool dude]

I would say the problem is more to do with a) the consumer and b) the company. I bought one of the first HDR Samsung 4K panels back in late 2015 and it came with a 5 year warranty from Curry's. Last year it started to screen bleed as I paid £1500 for it they just replaced it with something of better spec. I wouldn't have minded it to be repaired but it was just a lot easier for them and I got a better TV out of it which I am not going to say no to.

I have repaired a few things myself however. Xbox one controllers with dodgy sticks, my 360's drive broke so I repaired it myself as it was out of warranty. My old S6 phones motherboard had it so I replaced the motherboard, fixed my daughter's nexus 7 as she cracked the screen and my Dyson DC07 is basically triggers broom as I did a full refurbishment on it last year. (20 years old next month).

 

[Werewolf]

You'll get a good service life from an electrolytic providing its specced right, and a decent brand. Most appliances are filled with the cheapest parts available with borderline specs that cook themselves after a few years.

IIRC my old Dell FPW2005's had exactly that issue, they used 65c caps in an area that reached 65-70c and it was an extremely common problem with them dying just outside of warranty.
The 85c versions cost maybe a penny more.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

Nothing better than fixing items back to life again.

Indeed!

Has anyone seen the latest crap that Apple are expecting repair stores to adhere too for their devices for their new repair service they are offering?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwgpTDluufY

 

[Rroff]

IIRC my old Dell FPW2005's had exactly that issue, they used 65c caps in an area that reached 65-70c and it was an extremely common problem with them dying just outside of warranty.
The 85c versions cost maybe a penny more.

Something I find extremely frustrating dabbling with electronics - how often in consumer stuff just a few pence more makes a huge difference between not really upto the job and robust long life - I guess they want people buying new stuff regularly though but in the current environment I'm surprised that isn't frowned on more.

On a related note I think they should start regulating the car industry to ensure commonality in parts, easy replacement of many consumable, etc. parts and so on and the ability to strip out a lot of it come end of life of the vehicle and reuse much better than is the case today. Too many times I've found vehicles that just to replace a bulb for instance you need to undo like 18 screws, remove two panels and 10 pairs of hands just to do what should be a simple 15 second task

 

[Greebo]

Now this idea of "Repair events" sounds inspired - and obvious - why just Tooting?.

How often does one see modern TVs and PCs dumped at alleged "recycling" centres? Most of these devices are substantially modular and surely they can often be repaired?

Worst than that is most are working perfectly fine anyway. The household recycling centres round where I live used to keep anything that was still working and used to sell them to other people coming into the tip for cash and keep the money.

Perfect recycling. If you wanted a cheap tv for the bedroom you just went to the tip and bought one for £10. They always used to have a great selection of bikers including mountain bikes - all a fiver each.

Then the bosses running the recycling centres stopped it and everything had to be lobbed into the skips and broken up for "recycling". Stupid.

 

[chroniclard]

Most electrical items are probably far beyond my ability to repair. Not to mention not having the correct tools for it.

My ROG swift monitor now has a few flickering white lines on it......where would I start.....

 

[adolf hamster]

This is certainly one explanation - another explanation might be that manufacturers are keen that as soon as the warranty period is up you should give them some more money?

there are a multitude of reasons, and certainly having a designed EOL is one of them, there's also the economics of making it as cheap and fast as possible to produce.

unfortunately it's just how it makes sense for companies to build things, they have no motivation to make things fixable.

 

[stockhausen]

. . . companies have no motivation to make things fixable.

Aint that the truth Perhaps companies should be given the "motivation"?

However, accepting that we live in a world that is reliant on endless consumption, there really ought to be scope for "volunteers" to help others as seems to be the case here. This is particularly true where the world faces a real problem with the disposal of "rubbish".

 

[adolf hamster]

Aint that the truth Perhaps companies should be given the "motivation"?

it's a lovely thought, but unlikely do succeed in the face of rampant capitalism.