Cranks but won't start after a storm

[whedonum]

Hi folks,

I'd really appreciate your advice on the matter if you have a potential tip. This 2009 Jaguar XK was running smoothly with no issues. It was a very strong wind here last week, a storm. So at night I moved the car from the gates reversing slightly up the hill and parking sideways. Was a quick move, didn't let the engine run properly.

Next morning it cranks but won't start. Recharged the battery as the first suspect - no luck. Tried hacks with brake pedal and start button - same.

Attached you will find videos of the car starting and readings from the OBD port with OBD Fusion app.

Have some ideas what to do next, but would love to get your input first.

Car cranking sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbypXWh9R-I

OBD scan, part 1: https://youtu.be/9gb2sd7dUuI

OBD scan, part 2: https://youtu.be/3IUvFJ4ipeA

 

[Rroff]

I'm no expert but that sounds bad - IMO it isn't even getting to the point it might be a problem with stuff like being fuel or oxygen starved.

 

[jsmoke]

Can you try a jump start also check the battery connentions are secure may have to take them of and dry them etc.

Rain could have got into the spark plugs or other component also.

 

[MissChief]

So it's either not getting fuel or not getting a spark. When you say a Storm, how bad? Like the car was in some flooding? Or just heavy rain?

 

[b00merang69]

EMP!!!

 

[Rroff]

So it's either not getting fuel or not getting a spark. When you say a Storm, how bad? Like the car was in some flooding? Or just heavy rain?

I am definitely no expert let alone have any experience of that vehicle but it sounds to me like it is barely even turning over let alone getting to the point of no fuel (or rather the noises I'd associate with that), no spark, etc. so possibly timing belt or whatever setup that car has.

 

[LeMson]

Is it still on a hill? Try and roll it in N to level ground

 

[whedonum]

Hey folks,

Thanks for your replies. Answering your questions:
1. Whether it's bad or not my goal is to eliminate simple things first before going to service.
2. I've charged the battery after the issue. But you're right, maybe a jump start will help since it's not only V. No convenient way to do that, but I will try to figure smh out.
Also gonna check sparks today. No misfire though.
3. Storm as in heavy wind and rain, no flood or anything.
4. Haha, that would explain it all but I think nature was not that outraged that day!
5. Timing belt. I will look into it.
6. Yes, still on the hill. Will roll it back. Didn't know if it's safe to steer without power steering on this unit.

 

[Gaygle]

This is almost certainly just a flooded engine caused by the short distance you moved the car.

Best way to clear it is to just keep cranking the engine and keep your foot on the throttle right down to the floor. Might take a good several times of 15-20 seconds of cranking to clear it - don't be afraid to keep it going!

 

[Lopéz]

I am definitely no expert let alone have any experience of that vehicle but it sounds to me like it is barely even turning over let alone getting to the point of no fuel (or rather the noises I'd associate with that), no spark, etc. so possibly timing belt or whatever setup that car has.

Barely even turning over? It's turning over more than quickly enough, it just isn't firing.
Cars with a snapped cambelt tend to turn over even quicker, and with absolutely no attempt to fire.

 

[Armageus]

This is almost certainly just a flooded engine caused by the short distance you moved the car.

Best way to clear it is to just keep cranking the engine and keep your foot on the throttle right down to the floor. Might take a good several times of 15-20 seconds of cranking to clear it - don't be afraid to keep it going!

Exactly this - had to call rac out for this when I had a zafira.

If you have to move it a short distance on a cold engine, at least let it idle for a couple of minutes before turning off.

Full throttle and keep cranking it as suggested should do it, then just leave it running for a while or take it for a short drive.

 

[whedonum]

@Gaygle my thought exactly. However do cars still get flooded? Wasn't it the 20th century issue?
Also, called to the 24h hotline and this bloke didn't recommend to do the throttle trick but open the engine instead. Do you know what potential risks might be?

 

[Gaygle]

@Gaygle my thought exactly. However do cars still get flooded? Wasn't it the 20th century issue?
Also, called to the 24h hotline and this bloke didn't recommend to do the throttle trick but open the engine instead. Do you know what potential risks might be?

On cold cranks, the engine needs more fuel to get going and when you don't let the engine run and burn this fuel off, the excessive fuel sits in th enginer and when you start it next time, the car is preparing for another cold start so dumping in even more fuel meaning it won't fire until the level of fuel: oxygen comes to a level that allows ignition.

By "open your engine" do they mean, open your bonnet? If so, that's just gonna result in the wind taking your bonnet off and the rain getting your engine bay wet.

Just keep cranking it with the foot to the floor. If you really want to, you can remove the fuse for the fuel pump but tbh, I've never only ever cleared flooded engines by cranking until it starts.

 

[Armageus]

@Gaygle my thought exactly. However do cars still get flooded? Wasn't it the 20th century issue?

It's caused by mixture enrichment used to help cold starts and these days to help warm engines quicker (to meet emissions etc)

Also, called to the 24h hotline and this bloke didn't recommend to do the throttle trick but open the engine instead. Do you know what potential risks might be?

Full throttle on cold start is often interpreted as anti-flood mode by the ECU and so may prevent additional fuel being pumped in initially (or that's what the Rac man told me).

No real risk, although it will likely cough and splutter and you may get some excessive smoke from the exhaust

 

[Orionaut]

This is almost certainly just a flooded engine caused by the short distance you moved the car.

Best way to clear it is to just keep cranking the engine and keep your foot on the throttle right down to the floor. Might take a good several times of 15-20 seconds of cranking to clear it - don't be afraid to keep it going!

This

Exactly this - had to call rac out for this when I had a zafira.

If you have to move it a short distance on a cold engine, at least let it idle for a couple of minutes before turning off.

Full throttle and keep cranking it as suggested should do it, then just leave it running for a while or take it for a short drive.

And this.

Jag engines are particularly bad for this (For some reason)

You MUST NOT start the engine without allowing it to warm up a bit before switching it off again.

Just running a Jag for 20 seconds to turn it round in the drive (Say) will often cause big problems when you come to restart it.

If you are able to identify the coolant temp sensor (Usually Blue and screwed into something obviously coolant pipe related, though not always), unpluging it and shorting it out with a bit of wire sometimes helps (Tells the computer that the engine is warm, or at least will force a failsafe condition with a weaker fuel mix, though you will generate a fault code that will need to be cleared later)

 

[JRS]

Pull fuel pump fuse. Crank for 30-40 seconds. Put fuse back in. Try again.

Saw a mobile mechanic once who had a high amp rated push button switch that he would temporarily stick in place of the fuel pump fuse with Jags that had done this. Crank until it just catches then hold the button in to switch the fuel pump back on. Run engine to temperature, switch off, replace gizmo with fuse again.

 

[Rroff]

Barely even turning over? It's turning over more than quickly enough, it just isn't firing.
Cars with a snapped cambelt tend to turn over even quicker, and with absolutely no attempt to fire.

Wasn't saying snapped - maybe it is just that engine but the sound of each crank is kind of short compared to what I'm used to like it is hitting a brick wall as it turns over.

 

[bobuk]

Take out the spark plugs and turn the engine over with full throttle, you will probably see a lot of petrol come out of the cylinders, put a couple shots of oil in cylinders, turn the engine over with no throttle, replace spark plugs and hopefully will start. Sometimes when you start a cold engine and only drive it a few yards and switgh of you leave excess fuel in the cylinders and that will wash down the bores, I've had this a few times.

 

[SeatIbiza]

It's not a crank position sensor fault? Reason I say that is because your rev needle isn't moving at all, when it should on crank?

 

[Rroff]

It's not a crank position sensor fault? Reason I say that is because your rev needle isn't moving at all, when it should on crank?

Dunno if it depends vehicle to vehicle but crank no start often doesn't result in the rev needle moving. I might be wrong but I do get the feeling it is more something along those lines though but a flooded engine or fuel starvation due to being on an incline, etc. are strong(er) possibilities.