Sale of petrol and diesel cars to be banned by 2040

Soldato
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This makes no sense.

Smart charging: you get home from work at 6pm after your 50 mile commute, and plug your car in to your 7kW home charger. You've used 15kWh of power that day. You're set to leave again at 8am. The car could recharge in around 2 hours. But demand for electricity is high between 6pm and 8pm. And the car has 14 hours to recharge. So charging can wait until demand has fallen, and then proceed at a slower rate overnight, with the charge rate mirroring the amount of surplus electricity.

Why does this require that cars are plugged in at every opportunity?

It's millions of people plugging in at the same time which is the issue. It causes a huge spike.
 
Caporegime
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This makes no sense.

Smart charging: you get home from work at 6pm after your 50 mile commute, and plug your car in to your 7kW home charger. You've used 15kWh of power that day. You're set to leave again at 8am. The car could recharge in around 2 hours. But demand for electricity is high between 6pm and 8pm. And the car has 14 hours to recharge. So charging can wait until demand has fallen, and then proceed at a slower rate overnight, with the charge rate mirroring the amount of surplus electricity.

Why does this require that cars are plugged in at every opportunity?

I said they need access to charging at all times so they can smart charge. You can't have a terrace full of cars without a connection all trying to charge in the morning at the nearest charging station. It would bring the grid to its knees.

To be able to smart charge effectively all cars need to be able to access a charging port when stopped to make it viable or at least a high percentage of it. It's quite simple really. You cannot smart charge effectively if a car is not connected to the network as there will not be any way for the grid to monitor.

Think of a hotel which has peak and off peak dining. You have 400 guests but only 100 tables. The hotel has control of everyone under their roof they can spread the 400 over several hours and everyone goes to bed happy. If the hotel had no plan and people could pick any time what so ever you have a chaos.

The people who can pick any time what so ever is the equivalent of people with off street parking, tourists, vans, lorries etc etc. I have three cars on my drive as is so that would have to managed as well! Will I be entitled to three separate chargers at home?
 
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Associate
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Has anyone ever claimed the infrastructure is in place to support mass adoption?
No, but plenty of people think there's no excuse to not buy electric. I'm just trying to make the case that while it works for a lot of people, it isn't close to being possible for a heck of a lot of others.

If someone lives in a city like Bradford and says the infastructure is rubbish, they shouldn't be accused to peddling misinformation. Because they're right, it is rubbish.
 
Associate
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It's millions of people plugging in at the same time which is the issue. It causes a huge spike.
i think that idea is that when you plug in at home, you won't necessarily get to charge right away if demand is high. It'll do it later on that night, and you'll still wake up with a fully charged car.

How that work if you needed to charge and go quickly, i don't know. The national grid being in control of whether you can leave your house by car could be a disaster.
 
Soldato
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It's millions of people plugging in at the same time which is the issue. It causes a huge spike.


Or even ten

The idea to do a bit of supercharging while you pop into the local Tesco-express sounds great, but a dozen supercharges all at the same time is going to be around 1.5Mw

That's enough to run a large housing estate and sub-station worthy in its own right!

Even if the power is available, distribution capacity at street level is well away from what would be required
 
Soldato
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No, but plenty of people think there's no excuse to not buy electric. I'm just trying to make the case that while it works for a lot of people, it isn't close to being possible for a heck of a lot of others.

If someone lives in a city like Bradford and says the infastructure is rubbish, they shouldn't be accused to peddling misinformation. Because they're right, it is rubbish.

For me it would cost more to own an EV, lots more. Mostly due to depreciation and especially if you add in things like battery cover/rental.

There is a bit of a narrow window where you need to be doing over a certain amount of miles, but not too much to be inconvenient. Then it kinda works out.
 
Soldato
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I don't know how true this is

I was reading somewhere a few weeks ago where it was saying there are thousands or millions of old houses were the wiring that feeds to them is already right at it limit suppling the electric power the house needs less alone charging cars

Maybe there some electricians in here that could answer if this is true or not
 
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Soldato
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I don't know how true this is

I was reading somewhere a few weeks ago where it was saying there are thousands or millions of old houses were the wiring that feeds to them is already right at it limit suppling the electric power the house needs less alone charging cars

Maybe there some electricians in here that could answer if this is true or not

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

Street where my parents lived.

Lots of old 1920's houses. Back then Electricity was for lights and radio.

Supply to house is 60A at the fuse panel, 80A at the meter.

Over the years, increasing numbers of these houses have been redeveloped with two, three, four, or even blocks of flats being built on the plots previously occupied by a single house.

I have not seen any new substations or major cable replacements in the road.
 
Soldato
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If someone lives in a city like Bradford and says the infastructure is rubbish, they shouldn't be accused to peddling misinformation. Because they're right, it is rubbish.

Yet the poster in question stated that they didn't know the chargers existed, as they hadn't seen them. Given the chargers do exist, how can their opinion on adequacy be valid?

Does demand for chargers exceed supply in Bradford? That is surely the measure of adequacy?

Chances are, it's like most places; the bulk of the infrastructure is barely used. I've covered around 50,000 miles on electric now. Outside of a few hot spots, I rarely see another car plugged in. Maybe Bradford is such a hot spot. But I doubt it. If I had to go to Bradford tomorrow, getting a charge wouldn't worry me (unlike some parts of the country).

How that work if you needed to charge and go quickly, i don't know. The national grid being in control of whether you can leave your house by car could be a disaster.

Manual override.

By the end of this decade, most people will be on "time of use" electricity tariffs anyway. So when demand is low, prices are low. When demand is high, prices are high. In turn, that provides a deterrent to abuse.
 
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Soldato
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Yet the poster in question stated that they didn't know the chargers existed, as they hadn't seen them. Given the chargers do exist, how can their opinion on adequacy be valid?

Precisely. Problem is, once people start making assertions, impressionable people listen and begin to propagate them themselves. This is how gossip starts, and it's what the tabloids and populism thrive on.

It can be difficult in today's hyper connected world to discern who's telling the truth, especially on forums and social media where you often don't know people from Adam.
 
Soldato
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Chances are, it's like most places; the bulk of the infrastructure is barely used. I've covered around 50,000 miles on electric now. Outside of a few hot spots, I rarely see another car plugged in. Maybe Bradford is such a hot spot. But I doubt it. If I had to go to Bradford tomorrow, getting a charge wouldn't worry me (unlike some parts of the country).
But you most likely find that most people that own an electric car these days also have there own driveway or car garage and charge at home
 
Soldato
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Will I be entitled to three separate chargers at home?

Entitled? Are you allowed three electric showers in your house? Do you always take all three cars at the same time to re-fuel at once?

Why are you allowed three cars now? Is it per chance that you can afford them, and all of the things that go with the ownership, costs of insurance, parking, fuel, VED, repairs etc. Are you entitled to these cars?
 
Soldato
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I still think that by 2035, some refineries will be considering winding down their output certainly by 2050 as it becomes uneconomic to deliver longer distances to fewer stations with fewer pumps. Petrol and diesel will be much more expensive in real terms.

Hydrogen fuel cells could be an alternative as I am sure not all vehicles will be battery EV's as we currently know them. Electric bicycles will boom for local transport as will other two wheelers (which only need a shed :D).
 
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Associate
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Precisely. Problem is, once people start making assertions, impressionable people listen and begin to propagate them themselves. This is how gossip starts, and it's what the tabloids and populism thrive on.

It can be difficult in today's hyper connected world to discern who's telling the truth, especially on forums and social media where you often don't know people from Adam.
I'd hope anyone spending £30k+ on a car isn't going to be deterred from electric because of what someone said on a forum. Equally I wouldnt like to see someone go electric and find themselves stranded because they have rellied on charge points that are taken etc. People need to do their own research to see if it'll work for them.

As has been said, almost everyone who's gone electric atm has a means of charging at their property. Public chargers, even few in number, probably aren't in heavy demand. Not certain what needs to come first though, the demand for infastructure including more public charge points... or does the infastructure have to be put in first for more people to take the plunge.
 
Soldato
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LOL I just looked up the range of a Renault Zoe and it not far off only 110miles at around 80mph

I got a few mates who drive from St Malo to Latvia and back multi times a years (they have Latvia girlfriends) and it looks like trying to do that in an electric car would be mental

I don't think the new electric honda car range is also any better
 
Soldato
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LOL I just looked up the range of a Renault Zoe and it not far off only 110miles at 75mph to 80mph

I got a few mates who drive from St Malo to Latvia and back multi times a years (they have Latvia girlfriends) and it looks like trying to do that in an electric car would be mental

I don't think that new electric honda car range is any better

It will get better with the technology but yeah, EV's currently might make doing that difficult. No one is currently discussing banning using petrol or diesel but just buying new vehicles.
 
Soldato
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It will get better with the technology but yeah, EV's currently might make doing that difficult. No one is currently discussing banning using petrol or diesel but just buying new vehicles.
Am guessing the Toyota electric cars I see a fair few taxi drivers using are Hybrid and not just electric ?
 
Soldato
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LOL I just looked up the range of a Renault Zoe and it not far off only 110miles at around 80mph

I got a few mates who drive from St Malo to Latvia and back multi times a years (they have Latvia girlfriends) and it looks like trying to do that in an electric car would be mental

I don't think the new electric honda car range is also any better

see driving to Latvia in my book is mental.
 
Soldato
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I don't know how true this is

I was reading somewhere a few weeks ago where it was saying there are thousands or millions of old houses were the wiring that feeds to them is already right at it limit suppling the electric power the house needs less alone charging cars

Maybe there some electricians in here that could answer if this is true or not

Yep, the amount of sockets and power draw etc is all calculated in new houses. It's factored in to the EPC rating as well. The more sockets it has the less "green" it is, which is why they are often lacking.

Probably isn't actually much overhead either. Even though the first thing people do is add more sockets and increase the load.
 
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