Star Trek: Picard

[JRS]

Episode 9 was absolute pants IMO

And I've not been as down on the show as some here.

Spoiler: We-e-e-ell...

I think "absolute pants" might be overstating it some. But it certainly suffers for having some of the issues of episodes this season - over-reliance on long passages of exposition due to complexity of the story, cheap deaths of characters with minimal shock value, pacing issues due to shorter running time - all at once, adding to that the whole deal of having to set up a season finale.

Anyway, could be worse. They could have decided to give Picard a never-before-mentioned sibling, and a ship with a superduperhyper warp drive that runs on magic space mushrooms, and change the Romulan makeup look to give them four nostrils. But I guess that's crazy talk. I mean, what kind of series would do that?

*snort*

 

[Kainz]

Spoiler: BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

This week on Mass Effect: Picard

That Borg cube....That Borg cube made me almost go deaf and squeal with delight...until my joyous moment was ruined by those damn space triffids. The sound and visuals of the cube emerging from the conduit was breathtaking. Reminded of the Mass Effect Reaper-Destroyers BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

 

[TNA]

Spoiler: We-e-e-ell...

I think "absolute pants" might be overstating it some. But it certainly suffers for having some of the issues of episodes this season - over-reliance on long passages of exposition due to complexity of the story, cheap deaths of characters with minimal shock value, pacing issues due to shorter running time - all at once, adding to that the whole deal of having to set up a season finale.

Anyway, could be worse. They could have decided to give Picard a never-before-mentioned sibling, and a ship with a superduperhyper warp drive that runs on magic space mushrooms, and change the Romulan makeup look to give them four nostrils. But I guess that's crazy talk. I mean, what kind of series would do that?

*snort*

It’s pants! So don’t get your knickers in a twist JRS

Did not the whole spoiler by the way, just the first line

 

[JRS]

It’s pants! So don’t get your knickers in a twist JRS

Did not the whole spoiler by the way, just the first line

Whose knickers are twisted? Heck, I agree that the episode has issues (some of which it shares with other episodes this season). All I'm saying is that it does enough that's okay or very good to elevate it somewhat beyond "absolute pants"

And it's still better than STD

 

[TNA]

Whose knickers are twisted? Heck, I agree that the episode has issues (some of which it shares with other episodes this season). All I'm saying is that it does enough that's okay or very good to elevate it somewhat beyond "absolute pants"

And it's still better than STD

Was just messing with you man

Does not take much to be better than STD

 

[Minusorange]

Okay

 

[Gerard]

Few youtube vids floating around with the theory that Soong jr is actually Lore.

 

[steve5424]

I did enjoy this week's show. I was intrigued and entertained with it.

 

[Fluke?]

I'm glad I persevered with this after finding it all a bit silly a few episodes ago. It's far from perfect but I'm no trek superfan (B5 4eva ) so a lot of the criticisms go over my head.

I do like the feeling that we/the good guys have completely buggered up and have just signed our death warrant, and maybe the baddies/Romulans were right all along.
Doubt it will turn out like that though.

Heavy vibes of Mass Effect for sure and all good fun.

 

[Meddling-Monk]

Few youtube vids floating around with the theory that Soong jr is actually Lore.

I had the idea when watching it that it might not be Lore, but actually Lore was based off of this child of Soong, and that the craziness was there all along and hence why Lore had it too. Which is why both give off the same feeling. Both are very fast to throwing anyone else under the bus to get what they want. Even the female android, the "predecesor" to Soji, had this approach; both took logic to the extremes and had zero compassion by ultimately believing their own conclusions as the correct one. Something that Data has shown a difference in precisely because Data lacked these assurances of thought (Data never believed himself to be superior other than the physical capabilities that flesh and blood could not withstand) and tried to understand those unlike him unlike those in this episode.

I do like the feeling that we/the good guys have completely buggered up and have just signed our death warrant, and maybe the baddies/Romulans were right all along.
Doubt it will turn out like that though.

Heavy vibes of Mass Effect for sure and all good fun.

Yeah, tell me about it. I kept envisioning (and wanting), a scene recreated from the Arrival at Earth from Mass Effect 3 for the final episode if "Reapers" (Or should that be Geth?) do pop up.

 

[Minusorange]

Guess they all just kind of forgot

 

[StriderX]

How did Kurtzman get any job ever? I'm honestly confused.

Well the last episode better be cool at least.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Well I’ve generally liked the series but I’m not a big fan of how the plot seems to be playing out. If synthetics are supposed to be so bloody enlightened how can the bad Soji be suggesting anything close to their Overton window. Hhmm I don’t want to be negative but it’s taking some faith. I’ve watched the RedLetterMedia reviews and whilst I don’t agree with their overall position they make some good points.

 

[JRS]

If synthetics are supposed to be so bloody enlightened how can the bad Soji be suggesting anything close to their Overton window.

Fear, and/or madness brought on by taking on what Jurati saw of the Admonition in the mind meld? Though I'm not sure that the show has necessarily ever claimed that synthetic life is particularly extra-enlightened...

 

[TNA]

Guess they all just kind of forgot

Indeed. Silly isn’t it? Makes no sense whatsoever. Just kills all immersion. Hence it is better to assume that this show is in an alternate universe or something, as the one in Picard kinda sucks.

 

[PlacidCasual]

@JRS I get that Jurati ( bad Soji?) might be turned by the mind meld that I have less problem with. But that the other few hundred would so quickly get behind killing all sentient organic life. That’s a big decision and very lightly taken it seems.

I compare it to The Algebraist by Iain M Banks where

Spoiler

Artificial Intelligence choses self destruction over destroying organic sentience. Being the better person effectively.

I get that they’re not Data but can we imagine a Data ever making the same choice as the synthetics.

it’s not a show killer or anything I just think it’s a less ideal plot choice.

 

[Washout]

Guess they all just kind of forgot

Ah come on, they have to cater for folk who've never seen TNG before - there are lots of them, the heathens, who have no idea who Data was! Picard talking about Data in that scene was clearly exposition.
Sure having her know who he was would make sense for her line of work, after all Jurati certainly did. But maybe given what we know about her now that knowledge was part of her selective amnesia that's now clearing up. Would make sense not to have her true parentage front and forefront in her mind.

The Romulan phobia of ai is a retcon. They're not going to throw away the whole story they want to tell because of 1 throwaway line from from 1 episode out of 178! There's plenty of cases of TNG contradicting itself from episode to episode if it serves the story.

There are things to criticise but I really don't like this microscopic dissection of shows that when some perceived mistake is found it's an, 'a-ha!' moment and triggers a 15 minute youtube rant video with a click bait title.

 

[Steampunk]

Ah come on, they have to cater for folk who've never seen TNG before - there are lots of them, the heathens, who have no idea who Data was! Picard talking about Data in that scene was clearly exposition.
Sure having her know who he was would make sense for her line of work, after all Jurati certainly did. But maybe given what we know about her now that knowledge was part of her selective amnesia that's now clearing up. Would make sense not to have her true parentage front and forefront in her mind.

The Romulan phobia of ai is a retcon. They're not going to throw away the whole story they want to tell because of 1 throwaway line from from 1 episode out of 178! There's plenty of cases of TNG contradicting itself from episode to episode if it serves the story.

There are things to criticise but I really don't like this microscopic dissection of shows that when some perceived mistake is found it's an, 'a-ha!' moment and triggers a 15 minute youtube rant video with a click bait title.

A competent writer would simply have had the Zhat Vash working behind the scenes to kill off any AI research and over 20 years changing the Romulan attitude towards AI. The attack on Mars that let millions of Romulans die for lack of evacuation ships could easily be a black flag operation that was then used to shape a two decade hatred for the synthetics that caused it. No need to retcon anything.

It's just in the nature of Kurtzman Trek to not bother with the little details that make the difference between a gaping plothole, and no hole at all. Why be clever when it's easier to be dumb? Obviously picking something to pieces on a tiny detail isn't great, but then neither is the poor writing and lack of care all over the show. There's no point building on strong foundations if all Kurtzman is doing is undermining those foundations.

If there was no Trek, if this was just a standalone series with no nostalgia and backstory, I suspect we would not be willing to cut it as much slack as it is getting in some quarters. I think people want to really like it, but are having to deal with the fact that it is simply not as good (or as Trek) as it should be to warrant that affection.

 

[Gman]

I understand what you guys are saying. However I don't think their trying to "cater for the folk who've never seen TNG" at all. All they've done from day one is attempted to live off people fond memories of TNG,Voyager etc by constantly bringing back past characters. You can't give them slack for bending history to suit the plot when so far they've leant heavily on that same thing to keep people interested.

 

[Washout]

A competent writer would simply have had the Zhat Vash working behind the scenes to kill off any AI research and over 20 years changing the Romulan attitude towards AI. The attack on Mars that let millions of Romulans die for lack of evacuation ships could easily be a black flag operation that was then used to shape a two decade hatred for the synthetics that caused it. No need to retcon anything.

I think everything you wrote there was exactly their intentions when writing it?! Except, why would they be only hard at work doing that over the last 20 years and not 2000 or however long they've been around? Perhaps they ebb and flow and pop up like the bogeyman whenever anyone in Romulan society gets too close to creating a self aware ai and aren't always prominent in what's going on.
The Mars attack killed two birds with one stone. Cement, once again, the Romulan distrust of ai after a period were they were once again showing renewed interest in it and got their study/research banned in the federation - the society closest to creating it.

You see, even though I think it's a retcon (and a very minor one given, like I said, we're basing this off one line from one episode ever) it can still be squeezed into the lore of the Trek universe fairly easily. It's not like it's a lore that's always consistent or makes sense all the time anyway. I mean, all this fuss about Data being aware. The Enterprise and Voyager holodecks used to spin up self aware folk with emotions all the time!

Anyway, here's hoping the last episode gives everyone a satisfying conclusion. Who knows, we may not get a 2nd season if this blooming virus has it's way.