The folly of the modern world laid bare

Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,997
Location
Just to the left of my PC
EMS is a recognised condition in some jurisdictions, including at law, and for insurance risk assessment, and wrt actions to be taken by employers to mitigate risk.

German medical research suggests - If I recall correctly - the problematic wave frequency is in the beta band.

It's a recognised condition, yes. But not in any way linked to electromagnetic fields. That is proven by the fact that the symptoms depend not on how much the sufferer is exposed to EM fields but on how much the sufferer believes they're exposed to EM fields. If they're told they're exposed and they believe it, they show symptoms. Even when they're not being exposed at all.

Here, for example, is the WHO position:

https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs296/en/

I'll quote the most relevant part so you don't have to read it:

Well controlled and conducted double-blind studies have shown that symptoms were not correlated with EMF exposure.

It has been suggested that symptoms experienced by some EHS individuals might arise from environmental factors unrelated to EMF. Examples may include “flicker” from fluorescent lights, glare and other visual problems with VDUs, and poor ergonomic design of computer workstations. Other factors that may play a role include poor indoor air quality or stress in the workplace or living environment.

There are also some indications that these symptoms may be due to pre-existing psychiatric conditions as well as stress reactions as a result of worrying about EMF health effects, rather than the EMF exposure itself.

I think that the first one is being generous because it doesn't account for the studies in which the conditions were identical and the symptoms of EHS depended solely on what the sufferer believed regarding the presence of EM fields.

Not only is there no evidence of causation between EM fields expsure and EHS symptoms and no possible explanation of how causation could occur, there isn't even correlation. It's not just that it isn't proven true. It's proven false.
 

JRS

JRS

Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2004
Posts
19,498
Location
Burton-on-Trent
source

You were not wrong, just the history is slightly more complicated.

I spend a lot of time researching medieval medical conditions and emotion so I get a bit nerd like here and pedantic (excuse me). As a general rule its very difficult to make an accurate diagnosis of medical conditions from ancient texts, always an argument, the room for error is large and the chance of certainty often non-existant.

Generally accurate descriptions kick in around 1500 for influenza: before that things are a bit less certain.

All good dude :)
 

RxR

RxR

Soldato
Joined
16 Aug 2019
Posts
3,296
Location
Australia
Angilion, you are at risk of losing the plot with misimputation. I also deleted my above post, that you quoted, for the sound reason I have given. I would appreciate if you would do the same.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,997
Location
Just to the left of my PC
Angilion, you are at risk of losing the plot with misimputation. I also deleted my above post, that you quoted, for the sound reason I have given. I would appreciate if you would do the same.

I haven't lost the plot. You're ignoring it.

It's right there in bold. There isn't even correlation. You speculate about causation that explains the correlation, but you're ignoring the point that there isn't any correlation. You may as well speculate about what flavour of cheese the moon is made of.

The reason you gave for deleting your post isn't that you thought it was wrong. It's because you're claiming "misimputation" from one tangential part of that post. I think there was no misinterpretation of the connection you explicitly stated, but I'll delete my post anyway.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
11 Jan 2014
Posts
2,754
Angilion, you are at risk of losing the plot with misimputation. I also deleted my above post, that you quoted, for the sound reason I have given. I would appreciate if you would do the same.

I am not up to speed on the detail but what you are describing is a 'biological effect' i.e burning sensation, nausea. Very long way from demonstrating it is the cause of illness.

Sure you are aware of this and it would have been a good point to stress. Together with the observation that no solid scientific research has demonstrate a conclusive link between effect and ill health here so far.

Given the levels of anxiety potential harm in our present pandemic state, caution and care are required.

Evidence base here is contrary and deeply messy at the moment (which is normal in science). The good doctors claim that all that is required here is a book and critical reading skill is clearly far from the truth and demonstrates both a high degree of very poor judgment coupled with fervent and misplaced faith.
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
58,899
It’s a really well researched book, actually it basically contains all the science from the last 200 years that civilisation should have been paying attention to. It presents the science that lead to the revelation of our external as well as internal energetic life. It bridges science with eastern traditions such as the Chinese practices of tai chi, yin and yang and acupuncture.

Anyone who is logical or scientifically minded can read this book and clearly see the folly of modern life. How the electrification of our world since the day electricity was discovered and certainly the implementation of certain technologies from telegraph, to radar to wireless, to now 5g has caused us and the natural world considerable harm. The book presents a compelling case that the electrification of our society is the fundamental basis of cancer, heart disease and diabetes,

yin and yang and acupuncture.


electrification of our society is the fundamental basis of cancer

all the science

:D:D:D:D
 

RxR

RxR

Soldato
Joined
16 Aug 2019
Posts
3,296
Location
Australia
A critic of the facts I relayed in my above posts will serve themselves best by making a personal appeal to the proper authorities.

To wit, firstly, the OEM of the equipment I referred to. I'm sure they will be amused to settle any claim that their equipment doesn't usefully work as described.

Secondly, the researchers who were commissioned to investigate the biophysical mechanism by which the manufacturers equipment produced it's desirable effects. Physicists and biophysicists they were /are. Track them down and argue your favored point / theory of alternate mechanism of action.

These are matters of industrial and scientific epistemology.
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Jan 2014
Posts
2,754
A critic of the facts I relayed in my above posts will serve themselves best by making a personal appeal to the proper authorities.

To wit, firstly, the OEM of the equipment I referred to. I'm sure they will be amused to settle any claim that their equipment doesn't usefully work as described.

Secondly, the researchers who were commissioned to investigate the biophysical mechanism by which the manufacturers equipment produced it's desirable effects. Physicists and biophysicists they were /are. Track them down and argue your favored point / theory of alternate mechanism of action.

These are matters of industrial and scientific epistemology.

Not sure what you are talking about. Presently the thermal effect you are describing is the only recognized effect, which occurs above 6 ghz.

This phenomena has been flagged for further investigation but as yet the evidence is contrary comes from a range of disciplines not simply one as you suggest ( e.g. electromagnetic waves are tested as a means to actually treat disease and stimulate the bodies own opioids/ with the potential to treat a range of serious health conditions; or so it is hoped by those studying the phenomena) and is so far beyond science as the research is not mature and will probable suffer from standard cat herding issue as more than one discipline is looking at the same thing in regard to the thermal effect.

Why would anyone need to waste the time of physicist ,biophysicist or medical researchers with a statement of the obvious?

They are very busy folks.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,997
Location
Just to the left of my PC
A critic of the facts I relayed in my above posts will serve themselves best by making a personal appeal to the proper authorities. [..]

I'll serve myself by pointing out again that you're speculating a method of causation for something which is proven to not exist. Electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome has absolutely nothing to do with electromagnetic fields. Your speculation about how electromagnetic fields cause EHS can't be true because they don't cause it. Multiple double-blind trials established that.

You're ignoring that. The weapon system you refer to is irrelevant to EHS unless you're arguing that it's being secretly deployed all over the world on random people for some unknown reason and nobody notices despite the fact that it's a large vehicle-mounted system and must have clear line of sight to the target in open air and doesn't have much range.

Not sure what you are talking about. Presently the thermal effect you are describing is the only recognized effect, which occurs above 6 ghz.

He's referring to an unspecified weapon system, probably the USA's Active Denial System. Which operates at 95 GHz and with a power level orders of magnitude greater than ambient EM fields on Earth's surface. Or comms systems. And which is not the cause of EHS.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
5,538
One of the objective markers I recall being considered for EMS diagnosis was by biopsy, given there apparently was found a higher level of mast cells found in the skin of sufferers.

mast cells are a part of our immune system, which the OP considers to be fake news (exosomes) - is it a disease or intrinsic to our bodies?

Nb. It is quite something to place your hand in a high amplitude rf field and watch your fingers automatically tense and move.

You can cook a chicken in front of an active radar too (it's tasty).

Of course, it has also been found that different specific frequencies in the beta band that affect the motor cortex (and thus e.g.. hand and foot motions) vary across individuals. E.g.. See below

https://www.jneurosci.org/content/32/2/403

That's TV frequency, not 5G, and lets not pretend this experiment at close proximity is at all relevant to a TV Mast. I've walked around Winter Hill, the biggest TV Mast in the north West of England - and I did not feel a thing.

Bring or proof or apologise for scare mongering an anxious public at a difficult time. It's disgusting to be scaring vulnerable people during a global pandemic.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
90,821
That's TV frequency, not 5G, and lets not pretend this experiment at close proximity is at all relevant to a TV Mast. I've walked around Winter Hill, the biggest TV Mast in the north West of England - and I did not feel a thing.

Not tried that one but I do notice something within ~50 feet or so of high voltage transmission lines (the big ones) - not sure quite how to describe the sensation though.

(That is the 200-400K volt ones - don't notice it around the smaller ones).
 

RxR

RxR

Soldato
Joined
16 Aug 2019
Posts
3,296
Location
Australia
@Dave M - drop imputing nonsense to my post. I did no such scare mongering, or fact mangling.

@Angilion, yes, I asked you to delete my post, but not for your guessed assumption.

I asked you to do so simply because I am aware there are mentally unstable and sensitive folk who imagine some conspiracy or affront to their pacifism at any mention of the benefits of some types of advanced weaponry.

But to the point. Your proposition is / was, I take it, that no symptoms associated with claims of Electro-magnetic Sensitivity are or can be produced by RF equipment.

I alluded to the existence of industrial rf equipment which can produce the same symptoms (deliberately so) claimed by sufferers of EHS / EMS.

Thus, I presented you with a publicly-known counterexample of such symptoms being provoked by R F exposure.

Edit. And ftr, an old piece of (only partly) relevant industry news:

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/t-mobile-eyes-spectrum-above-95-ghz-for-5g-backhaul
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom