The point is, what he said is not specific to you or your company but you responded like it is. I have no idea what your problem is? No one is saying you’re not doing any work. No one cares either.
You forgot to remind me...
- Thread starter scooby75
- Start date
The point is, what he said is not specific to you or your company but you responded like it is. I have no idea what your problem is? No one is saying you’re not doing any work. No one cares either.
Caporegime
You get very few leaders who adopt 100% ownership of problems that occur below them. It's probably a miniscule percentage of the population who actually have it in them to act in such a way. Management is always a tricky one in terms of finding those who want the role because they can and will lead and those who want it because of the salary increase or were forced into it (this is just another management issue from above though).
Caporegime
Management 101 pretty much, screw up yourself, find somebody else to blame.
Caporegime
No one cares? Curious, both you and he obviously did!
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2005
- Posts
- 16,549
If someone invites me to a meeting, and I forget, I would apologise for forgetting. I personally wouldn't dream of blaming them for forgetting to remind me.
That's just me though.
(outlook)
That's just me though.
(outlook)
Soldato
Sounds exactly like a place I used to work at. People promoted into positions they didn't have the skills for via nepotism rather than effort/achievement. As a result staff turnover was ridiculous.
Part of my role was to find solutions to issues in order to keep a client. On several occasions I had found solutions/workarounds that needed a higher clearance authorisation on the systems so I'd have to forward it to a member of management, get confirmation that it was authorised and then they would have to log in and enter their credentials to action it. I'd get an email telling me it was authorised and would be processed only for a week later loosing the the client because they issue hadn't been resolved & I'd get collared to tell me it was on me.
Had several disciplinary meetings in which I walked out having been vindicated by the pletora of emails I kept but managers responsible never got collared.
No one cares about how much you work.
We responded to your petulance, not the subject of how much work you do.
I’m going to stop replying to you now, you’ve made it obvious that basic dialogue is a challenge for you to follow.
Thanks again everyone (except the 2 arguing - please stop it or have your argument privately. Ego is of far less worth than dignity).
I'm thinking I've been very lucky in my work. Interesting comments about ownership. In my last job, there was no question that managers were fully responsible for the actions of our teams, always set a good example and I've always taken this as the norm for a manager. If a team member failed at something, it was seen as a failure of the manager to manage the team member properly. I always thought we were a happy little ship, but looking back it was paradise in comparison to now.
I've noted the comment on nepotism too. I've seen a couple of people in my new job promoted to incompetence rather than merit. I'm flabbergasted that this is quite widespread practice.
Might look at starting my own business and try to rebuild what I had...
I'm thinking I've been very lucky in my work. Interesting comments about ownership. In my last job, there was no question that managers were fully responsible for the actions of our teams, always set a good example and I've always taken this as the norm for a manager. If a team member failed at something, it was seen as a failure of the manager to manage the team member properly. I always thought we were a happy little ship, but looking back it was paradise in comparison to now.
I've noted the comment on nepotism too. I've seen a couple of people in my new job promoted to incompetence rather than merit. I'm flabbergasted that this is quite widespread practice.
Might look at starting my own business and try to rebuild what I had...
Chances are he was actually criticising you for not reminding him. If a meeting has been arranged a long time in advance then it's usually a good idea to remind the others. But not shouldering the responsibility is poor form indeed.
Anyway, it really does sound like management is a problem at your new company. Are you able to bend the ear of someone much more senior? Make sure you have solutions! Or perhaps the secretary of someone much more senior?
Quartz, I have to disagree in terms of where blame lies. If I were this manager, I would accept full responsibility for my forgetfulness. It might have been nice for some other person to ask "aren't you supposed to be in a meeting? ", but responsibility would lie solely and squarely with me. But that's my opinion and how I work.
Sadly management seems to get worse the higher up you go unfortunately. I have raised one issue with more senior management who seemed genuinely shocked at it and raised it with the department manager, but it was blatantly obvious that he'd been fed a pile of bull. When I challenged, I was told that the explanation was satisfactory even though there were numerous inaccuracies, bendings of the truth, obfuscation, omissions and downright lies in the response, basically back covering.
I'm just going to keep my head down and look elsewhere for a job. I hope this behaviour is not normal everywhere otherwise I will have to go self employed.
Sadly management seems to get worse the higher up you go unfortunately. I have raised one issue with more senior management who seemed genuinely shocked at it and raised it with the department manager, but it was blatantly obvious that he'd been fed a pile of bull. When I challenged, I was told that the explanation was satisfactory even though there were numerous inaccuracies, bendings of the truth, obfuscation, omissions and downright lies in the response, basically back covering.
I'm just going to keep my head down and look elsewhere for a job. I hope this behaviour is not normal everywhere otherwise I will have to go self employed.
Caporegime
JUST LOL IF YOU'RE NOT HAVING TEAM MEETINGS WITH YOURSELF, MICRO-MAXING THE FLEXI QUALITY OUTPUTS, AND DELIVERING AFTERBURNER OUTCOMES ON FULL THRUST.
Actually, we both agree where blame lies; I'm just saying I think he was blaming you.
Good luck!
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Mar 2013
- Posts
- 9,147
I like the irony of a manager on here having miss-intrerpreted something and blaming someone else
. In my last job, it was quite common for the useless people to get promoted as they then became somebody else's problem. If you were good at your job, you were stuck where you were.
. In my last job, it was quite common for the useless people to get promoted as they then became somebody else's problem. If you were good at your job, you were stuck where you were.
Caporegime
I like the irony of a manager on here having miss-intrerpreted something and blaming someone else
Or he's able to construct a sentence? Unlike the other guy in question.
Also if we're throwing things around, I find workers are never able to accept they've done something wrong, particularly when they've damaged something "it was already like that", "that's how I found it", or neglected to do something "that's not my job".
Prime example today, some genius left a load of pallets across a footpath. No idea who it was but that's not my main focus. My biggest gripe was the group of 3 people (not distancing) who stepped over them. When asked why they didn't move them - "I didn't put them there", "that's what the cleaners are for".
Last edited:
Caporegime
#irony
I think it comes down to whether the person in question has good ‘management’ skills that relies on the team who in their own right are subject matter experts OR whether a subject matter expert becomes the manager.
Personally I’ve found that subject matter experts that then become managers tend to struggle with the management side of things. Not all obviously but quite a few. They lack the people management skills (unless heavily supported by the business), but they get promoted off of the back of being the expert in the process or within the team.
Personally I’ve found that subject matter experts that then become managers tend to struggle with the management side of things. Not all obviously but quite a few. They lack the people management skills (unless heavily supported by the business), but they get promoted off of the back of being the expert in the process or within the team.
My apologies Quartz, I misinterpreted your words, and thanks for the good luck.
Johhny, I agree and I've always been of the opinion that team managers should always be in that position purely to manage people and the experts advice always taken on. At least that's the way it worked at my last place and it worked very well.
In my new job, I'm seeing managers completely ignoring the input and advice of technical experts as well as those who are well experienced in their field, only to see things go **** up afterwards and morale plummet to new depths.
Just today I've had one of my team members almost in tears because he was blamed for failing to make a system work that he (and myself) said from the outset wouldn't work, but were ignored. Took a while to convince him that culpability goes up the chain, not down, but I seem to be spending more time firefighting than actually doing my job because some managers just don't want to listen to others...
I just don't understand the mentality that makes people in management behave this way.
Soldato
Sounds like you should be the manager there, you seem to have all the qualities needed
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,310
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me...
Anil, you energistically developed a market-driven synergy, but failed to account for the progression of cross-platform best practices, costing the team the entire task.
Susan, you assertively seized the efficient internal sources, but your aggressive manner upset the rest of your team and contributed to Anil's holistic ignorance.
But you, John. You forgot to remind me we had this meeting.
So John... You're Fired!!
Anil, you energistically developed a market-driven synergy, but failed to account for the progression of cross-platform best practices, costing the team the entire task.
Susan, you assertively seized the efficient internal sources, but your aggressive manner upset the rest of your team and contributed to Anil's holistic ignorance.
But you, John. You forgot to remind me we had this meeting.
So John... You're Fired!!