When are you going fully electric?

bimbleuk · 24 Apr 2020 at 15:00

This can depend on the

Orionaut said:
I am wondering whether EV batteries might deteriorate if they are not used.

This is quite apart from the fact that most of the economics (Battery leases etc) presume a significant regular usage. I would not want to be in the position of paying £100/Month or whatever for the privilege of owning an EV on top of all the other costs of car ownership, whether I was using it or not.

Yes EV batteries do calendar age as well as loose capacity from high usage but being so large they last many years if not decades. There are some basic guidelines to follow such as keeping the charge between say 20-80% or less if the vehicle is rarely used. Avoid high state of charge when left standing for long periods.

There are a few models to be aware of that actually have issues with maintaining the 12V battery ironically. Poor software implementation or hidden menu options for winter modes not clearly explained in the user manual (if even read).

Orionaut · 24 Apr 2020 at 15:10

bimbleuk said:
not clearly explained in the user manual (if even read).

Who reads the manual??

I recall some years ago seeing the owners handbook for a Merc SUV.

It was over an inch thick, nobody is ever going to read through all that.

Just for fun I did a little websearch for Saturn V Flight manual (The one that they ripped the cover off in the movie Apollo 13. If it had been me I would have instructed "Carefully remove" rather than "Rip", but there we are. What actually was said I do not know)

And yes.

Russinating · 24 Apr 2020 at 15:12

Orionaut said:
Who reads the manual??

I recall some years ago seeing the owners handbook for a Merc SUV.

It was over an inch thick, nobody is ever going to read through all that.

Just for fun I did a little websearch for Saturn V Flight manual (The one that they ripped the cover off in the movie Apollo 13. If it had been me I would have instructed "Carefully remove" rather than "Rip", but there we are. What actually was said I do not know)

And yes.

I watched a YouTube video of someone who'd read the manual...

Bug One · 24 Apr 2020 at 15:15

Orionaut said:
How well do EV's cope with limited use?

I have a friend (And my position isn't that different really) where the car only gets used once a fortnight or so. ICE is fine with this. But how do EV's fair?

The only things that will suffer from being left for long periods, are identical to any car. Brakes will rust through under use. Handbrake could bind. Potentially, the 12v battery could go flat if it's old and knackered. I think the Leaf checks it every 3 days if not in use and tops it up if required - so if your battery will go flat in 3 days - it could go flat.

However, the motor / high voltage battery the car won't be effected. Would slowly go down in power from topping up the 12v, but other than that - fine.

bimbleuk · 24 Apr 2020 at 15:33

Orionaut said:
Who reads the manual??

I recall some years ago seeing the owners handbook for a Merc SUV.

It was over an inch thick, nobody is ever going to read through all that.

Just for fun I did a little websearch for Saturn V Flight manual (The one that they ripped the cover off in the movie Apollo 13. If it had been me I would have instructed "Carefully remove" rather than "Rip", but there we are. What actually was said I do not know)

And yes.

I did read the Tesla manual

First one I read properly though and mainly because it was all I had (it's digital of course) until the actual car was ready for collection.

Orionaut · 24 Apr 2020 at 16:06

The point I am trying to make is that for low users, ICE is still the probably best option and is likely to be for decades to come.

If you are doing 50 miles a day, every day, EV's are great. They always have been really (Britain had a vast fleet of EV's back in the 60's/70's possibly even more EV vehicles than today)

If you only need to do 50 miles a week however the economics totally suck.

And the technical aspects might well suck too.

(Having said that, while not an EV, I do have a little electric chainsaw with a lithium battery, It hasn't been charged or used for many months but it still displays all bars. I am actually quite impressed. (I am also very impressed with its performance. Just because it runs on a battery doesn't mean it is a toy! I can do half a days work including stuff up to 3" and still have two bars left on the battery indicator. It is fantasitc for working up trees. None of this trying to start a motor with a pull cord at the top of a ladder and much quieter with no fumes blowing into your face))

ShiWarrior · 24 Apr 2020 at 16:10

Orionaut said:
The point I am trying to make is that for low users, ICE is still the probably best option and is likely to be for decades to come.

If you are doing 50 miles a day, every day, EV's are great. They always have been really (Britain had a vast fleet of EV's back in the 60's/70's possibly even more EV vehicles than today)

If you only need to do 50 miles a week however the economics totally suck.

And the technical aspects might well suck too.

(Having said that, while not an EV, I do have a little electric chainsaw with a lithium battery, It hasn't been charged or used for many months but it still displays all bars. I am actually quite impressed. (I am also very impressed with its performance. Just because it runs on a battery doesn't mean it is a toy! I can do half a days work including stuff up to 3" and still have two bars left on the battery indicator. It is fantasitc for working up trees. None of this trying to start a motor with a pull cord at the top of a ladder and much quieter with no fumes blowing into your face))

im getting an EV next as it suits me short distances
12 miles a day (just work) so minimum 60 miles a week for me

Orionaut · 24 Apr 2020 at 16:21

ShiWarrior said:
im getting an EV next as it suits me short distances
12 miles a day (just work) so minimum 60 miles a week for me

The point being that you do this every day.

My ideal EV is actually the G-Wiz.

I would love one of those (or something similar)

I have a Landcruiser and a lorry for other purposes and an old 318i for fun.

But a G-Wiz would meet probably 70%, or more, of my transport needs.

I have always felt that the main thing delaying the EV take up is the idea that an EV should be able to do everything that an ICE car can do.

This makes them far too expensive and It doesnt have to be so.

For most people an EV with a top speed of 50MPH and a range of 40 miles would tick all the boxes as long as it was cheap enough to be the second or third car.

That is what I feel the manufacturers should be producing.

Nasher · 24 Apr 2020 at 16:32

G-wiz would be ok for the middle of London. I wouldn't want to be in a crash in one though lol. It's basically a little tikes car.

Orionaut · 24 Apr 2020 at 16:42

Nasher said:
G-wiz would be ok for the middle of London. I wouldn't want to be in a crash in one though lol

I wouldn't want to be in a crash on a bicycle or motorbike either.

A G-Wiz is a good deal safer than either.

The "G-Wiz is dangerous" argument is somewhat of a red herring really.

ShiWarrior · 24 Apr 2020 at 16:58

Jonnycoupe · 24 Apr 2020 at 17:12

Nasher said:
It says in production by 2026, so probably in cars around 2030. That's going to pretty much kill off all existing EVs.

Only if it offers a sensible material cost.

Jonnycoupe · 24 Apr 2020 at 17:17

Bug One said:
I still remember being barraged about what a stupid car my Mk1 Insight was. And all the jokes about going flat, and being useless in no time when I bought my Leaf.

I was before you on the insight ribbing! Fox has maintained his PCP junky image in the meantime.

Nasher · 24 Apr 2020 at 17:27

ShiWarrior said:

A few have had bike engines installed. A massive improvement tbh

James82 · 24 Apr 2020 at 20:00

When I am taxed out or when you can from "fumes" to full in under 10 minutes.

Malevolence · 25 Apr 2020 at 22:50

Whenever I see someone in a G-Wiz I'm always reminded of the AC Invacar.

jpaul · 30 Apr 2020 at 11:28

tesla earning update .. intriguing that they are improving model Y manufacturing technique mid-season .. single piece casting on rear body, new heat pump.
https://youtu.be/vEvXfHHEdNc?t=398
listened to hear his infamous comments on lock-down ... Musk comes over, surprisingly hesitantly, in his discourse.

Stu999 · 30 Apr 2020 at 11:37

Do electric cars fully discharge themselves when not used? How are they coping with the lockdown?

Russinating · 30 Apr 2020 at 11:39

Stu999 said:
Do electric cars fully discharge themselves when not used? How are they coping with the lockdown?

No, they just use what's needed to stay idle which can be as low as 1% over 7 days (for my Tesla Model 3 at least). You're recommended to leave them between 60-80% which is standard anyway, and plugged in if possible, and that's about it.

chroniclard · 30 Apr 2020 at 11:41

Quite like the products and technology of Tesla but Elon is a huge bell end.