AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

[FireTwo]

Here is a simple overview of the bios rom sizes of B350-X570 motherboards.

what are gigabyte thinking?! Great X570 range with decent specs/VRMs etc then they skimp out on the mb

 

[beany_bot]

what are gigabyte thinking?! Great X570 range with decent specs/VRMs etc then they skimp out on the mb

Is there a need for more than 16mb Bios?

 

[FireTwo]

Is there a need for more than 16mb Bios?

clearly if other brands are rocking 32mb, and I would imaging price difference between 16-32 wouldn't be hardly anything.

 

[Panos]

Is there a need for more than 16mb Bios?

AMD said so 3y ago

 

[beany_bot]

clearly if other brands are rocking 32mb, and I would imaging price difference between 16-32 wouldn't be hardly anything.

Doesnt matter is other boards are offering 100Tb or 3Kb.

Is there a need for 32mb over 16mb?

 

[Freddie1980]

AMD said so 3y ago

AMD weren't in a position to dictate to motherboard vendors what size roms they had to use 3 years ago. AMD got what they were given and should have been grateful for it (given how little presence in the market they had at that point).

 

[welshrat]

Been thinking about this a fair bit, I am a big gamer and play both PC and console. I ditched Xbox in favour of PC but still play a lot on PS4 Pro and switch. With next Gen around the corner I have already decided I am going PS5 and switch 2 and continue with PC gaming so my thoughts are that I will initially upgrade to big Navi (freesync etc hence no nvidia) and then look again at possibly going x670 board anyhow to get the PCIE 4 speeds that could well be required for SSD with these new consoles. That should then keep me happy for a good few years and I wont have to ditch my nice ddr4 memory etc in favour of ddr5 etc.

Also means I can do all of that without upgrading CPU until last thing assuming x670 supports my 3700X

 

[Doobedoo]

Yep what’s happened has happened. It only matters what happens going forward now.

 

[r22snapper]

AMD weren't in a position to dictate to motherboard vendors what size roms they had to use 3 years ago. AMD got what they were given and should have been grateful for it (given how little presence in the market they had at that point).

Not really fair to moan at them about it then.

 

[LePhuronn]

Not really fair to moan at them about it then.

And yet this thread has gone that way.

The only really valid argument is what CAT points out in saying AMD's apparent obfuscation to their board partners and OEMs. You can argue to you're blue in the face about whether us enthusiasts have a point and if we interpreted AMD's marketing roadmaps correctly, but if OEMs were told plainly B450 would support Zen 3 then there's a problem, especially with the delays with Asmedia and getting B550 out the door.

 

[alec]

AMD better produce some promising Zen 3 performance leaks soon to change the tune of comments.

 

[LePhuronn]

AMD better produce some promising Zen 3 performance leaks soon to change the tune of comments.

Haven't you got that the wrong way round? If Zen 3 shows great gains then everybody "locked out" will just shout some more You want Zen 3 to be a damp squib so they feel they're ultimately not missing out lol

Rumours so far aren't earth-shattering anyway.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not really fair to moan at them about it then.

It is fair though,because of the way they handled this. Firstly no B550 until next month?? That's one year after Zen2 launch. If B450 was the only mainstream chipset,why didn't they tell people last year it wouldn't work?? Launch a consumer B450X/B550A version of B450 with relevant modifications to work with Zen3? Do something,instead of just repeating the same old vague marketing and sitting on their arse.Last year they made a blog post on how they would keep socket compatibility and made a sideswipe at Intel(they said Intel was evil for locking out motherboards). They literally told their own system integrators until this month B450 would work OK,so why hide the truth to them??

Also that was 4 years ago in 2016 when they were talking to motherboard OEMs,not 2 years ago with the Zen+ launch. Zen was originally meant to be late 2016 launch - by 2018 surely they could have sat down with motherboard OEMs,and had another good chat with them after Zen was a success. If it was such a big problem still,then they should have changed their stance on socket compatibility back then.

Gamersnexus article pointed out things AMD was doing. AMD actually knew B450 compatibility was a problem for them. They only decided to make the announcement last week,to make sure there was less bad PR for the Zen3 launch.
They knew very well they were screwing over their own buyers,but Gamersnexus said they expected "people should just sit and stew" and surprised the backlash was this bad. This is really cynical on their part. If they had just been honest,they might have even sold more X570 motherboards.

 

[humbug]

AMD weren't in a position to dictate to motherboard vendors what size roms they had to use 3 years ago. AMD got what they were given and should have been grateful for it (given how little presence in the market they had at that point).

This is the point Steve From GN made, he talked to MB Vendors, frankly they weren't really interested in supporting AMD at all.

That's changed now but back then AMD might as well have been Cyrix.

They took a punt on them, that's it.

 

[smilertoo]

I dont see the reason for all the complaining, anyone who buys into Ryzen now is only going to get 1 generation...the 4000 series needs a new motherboard, so at least current users got more than anyone about to buy.

 

[humbug]

It is fair though,because of the way they handled this. Firstly no B550 until next month?? That's one year after Zen2 launch. If B450 was the only mainstream chipset,why didn't they tell people last year it wouldn't work?? Launch a consumer B450X/B550A version of B450 with relevant modifications to work with Zen3? Do something,instead of just repeating the same old vague marketing and sitting on their arse.Last year they made a blog post on how they would keep socket compatibility and made a sideswipe at Intel(they said Intel was evil for locking out motherboards). They literally told their own system integrators until this month B450 would work OK,so why hide the truth to them??

Also that was 4 years ago in 2016 when they were talking to motherboard OEMs,not 2 years ago with the Zen+ launch. Zen was originally meant to be late 2016 launch - by 2018 surely they could have sat down with motherboard OEMs,and had another good chat with them after Zen was a success. If it was such a big problem still,then they should have changed their stance on socket compatibility back then.

Gamersnexus article pointed out things AMD was doing. AMD actually knew B450 compatibility was a problem for them. They only decided to make the announcement last week,to make sure there was less bad PR for the Zen3 launch.
They knew very well they were screwing over their own buyers,but Gamersnexus said they expected "people should just sit and stew" and surprised the backlash was this bad. This is really cynical on their part. If they had just been honest,they might have even sold more X570 motherboards.

Steve is making a mountain out of a mole hill to justify his "i told you so, aren't i clever..."

There are a couple of people in here who are understandably annoyed with AMD but are behaving like adults about it, Reddit has a small number of children raging but that's really about it.

There is no "Massive backlash" Steve is behaving like the BBC banging on as if the whole country hates Boris, its because they hate Boris and want to stir everyone up into a rage but in reality most people are pretty grown up and role their eye's at BBC talking heads.

Most people feel like yes its a bit crappy but i get it, X570 boards are selling like hot cakes right now....

 

[r22snapper]

And yet this thread has gone that way.

The only really valid argument is what CAT points out in saying AMD's apparent obfuscation to their board partners and OEMs. You can argue to you're blue in the face about whether us enthusiasts have a point and if we interpreted AMD's marketing roadmaps correctly, but if OEMs were told plainly B450 would support Zen 3 then there's a problem, especially with the delays with Asmedia and getting B550 out the door.

Agreed. And if MSI (for example) has promised that all future AM4 processors will work on some of their B450 boards then either there is a way round it on a board by board basis or you'd have a very good case for a refund having bought on that basis.

 

[Augustus]

The tech press has been under NDA on this for a couple of weeks before the announcement. They've got themselves mixed up in the mess by being complicit. It is interesting watching them dealing with this.

AMD weren't in a position to dictate to motherboard vendors what size roms they had to use 3 years ago. AMD got what they were given and should have been grateful for it (given how little presence in the market they had at that point).

This is why cutting adrift the more expensive X370 and B350 boards is throwing these users under the bus. People who bought these gave AMD the platform they needed to get recognition with the motherboard makers. The whole platform was at best alpha-stage with Ryzen 1.

When Zen3 came out X470 microcode was being used to enable X370 boards under the table. When it comes to the chipset X370 and X470 are functionally the same.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The tech press has been under NDA on this for a couple of weeks before the announcement. They've got themselves mixed up in the mess by being complicit. It is interesting watching them dealing with this.




This is why cutting adrift the more expensive X370 and B350 boards is throwing these users under the bus. People who bought these gave AMD the platform they needed to get recognition with the motherboard makers. The whole platform was at best alpha-stage with Ryzen 1.

When Zen3 came out X470 microcode was being used to enable X370 boards under the table. When it comes to the chipset X370 and X470 are functionally the same.

It is hilarious,if AMD markets a highly compatible socket,it means BIOS sizes will increase. So if after the Zen,Zen+ and Zen2 launches can't do anything about it,it either means they have a lax reference specification or are winging the marketing.

It's gets worse,when you think about it. A lot of X570 motherboards have 16MB BIOS chips,so apparently poor AMD was bullied by those evil OEMs as far as summer 2019. So trice unlucky for AMD's great plan. This is Baldrick level's of hilarity.

But instead of AMD deciding to change it's marketing and say this is not going to work out,they doubled down with statements like this:

"The alternative to this BIOS 'problem,' which we find truly repugnant, is simply breaking socket compatibility with every new generation of CPU. Nobody can keep their old motherboard and upgrade, anymore. Nobody would ever have to worry about a BIOS update again... but they would also never get to keep their investment ever again. To us, that is not the right thing to do. It seems hostile and abusive to arbitrarily prevent users from keeping the same motherboard, which may cost a few hundred dollars, just to make the upgrade process a little 'neater' on paper. So we do what we can to support in-socket upgrades as we have with Socket AM4."

Then told system integrators such as Schenker that B450 work,so much so they put it on their own product pages. Then heard at the exact time as us it wouldn't work.

So,AMD can't even treat it's own partners properly. They pulled the same trick for the RX5600XT launch,and gave the OEMs last minute problems.HUB,even said they had not even told motherboard OEMs they were not allowing Zen3 support.

No wonder AMD seems to get second rung for desktops and laptops. If you were an OEM,and saw this,you would just put more priority on Intel and Nvidia products,as you know what to expect. With AMD they could pull another sudden decision,which causes problems. But for people it's usually another sob story of good vs evil....it seems more like more competent/know what to expect vs incompetent/haven't a clue what is happening.

Their marketing as usual is utterly disjointed.One section does not know what the other section does. I have actually heard this from someone who had to deal with AMD in this regard. I actually thought the CPU side was OK,but apparently it seems its the same as RTG.

 

[humbug]

so apparently poor AMD was bullied by those evil OEMs as far as summer 2019

No need to be so condescending CAT no one has said that, none of these vendors trusted AMD to deliver and no one blames them for that, they had good reason to be sceptical.

People are being pretty pragmatic.