Concrete driveway advice (pics included)

[Hedge]

Sometimes I think we are all guilty of knowing everything through Google and end up analysing everything.

Maybe he had intentions of digging out more tomorrow when he removed rubble.

Hopefully it all goes OK. It also comes down to price charged too. If they see cheap then there is a reason.

Less depth is less materials and lower cost.

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Ah well, I fired off my concerns all I got back was that he's been doing it all his life and knows what he's doing. What bit? The concrete, the 2 hour work days?!? Says he'll see me tomorrow.

Just to point out that I couldn't get decent tradesmen interested in the job wasn't because of Covid, I've been trying to get this job done since last year.

Least you let him know you're concerned about it
And now you know his attitude
Which to me is a **** attitude to be honest
I have built pcs for 20 + years
But if building one for someone if they queried what I was doing I would explain
What and why and what came next etc
Not just say hey I know what I am doing mate
End of the day they are working for you so you have every right to have anything you want properly explained
Crazy you couldn't get a reputable tradesman in that time period
Looks like you might be stuck with letting them finish it then sadly
Hope it all turns out OK in the end for you mate
Your first post kind of says it all "few likely lads"

 

[kinetic747]

Ah well, I fired off my concerns all I got back was that he's been doing it all his life and knows what he's doing. What bit? The concrete, the 2 hour work days?!? Says he'll see me tomorrow.

Just to point out that I couldn't get decent tradesmen interested in the job wasn't because of Covid, I've been trying to get this job done since last year.

May be a bit late in the day but references would have been good and also some sort of guarantee on the work. Unfortunately there's a lot of tradesmen around who come and go as they please, usually because they have more than one job on the go.

 

[LeeUK]

Least you let him know you're concerned about it
And now you know his attitude
Which to me is a **** attitude to be honest
I have built pcs for 20 + years
But if building one for someone if they queried what I was doing I would explain
What and why and what came next etc
Not just say hey I know what I am doing mate
End of the day they are working for you so you have every right to have anything you want properly explained
Crazy you couldn't get a reputable tradesman in that time period
Looks like you might be stuck with letting them finish it then sadly
Hope it all turns out OK in the end for you mate
Your first post kind of says it all "few likely lads"

He went on to say that he's bringing the dolomite tomorrow and tipping it to one side while he "drags the rest of the crap out" up onto the the wagon to take away. I don't know if he just means the pile of rubble that's already there or if he is indeed digging more out of the ground. Then he said that he only came today to start it the job off and get some of it away and the concrete is booked for Saturday.

That's all well and good but none of this was fully explained and if this the case, why did he say he was coming back today!

Yes the price of the job might be considered very competitive, but I didn't ask for a cheap job, I was getting people in to quote for the drive for however much they saw fit. I think some of the problem why some tradesmen didn't want the job was because I didn't want the whole yard done, just the half that has been dug up in the photo.

 

[LeeUK]

May be a bit late in the day but references would have been good and also some sort of guarantee on the work. Unfortunately there's a lot of tradesmen around who come and go as they please, usually because they have more than one job on the go.

Seeing as I got no written contract I doubt the guarantee would be much good. But yeah I think he is just a floater and prob changing his trading name as he see fits.

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Seeing as I got no written contract I doubt the guarantee would be much good. But yeah I think he is just a floater and prob changing his trading name as he see fits.

Sounds about right
Doesn't sound like he's going to get much repeat business
Hopefully he turns up
And surprises all us cynics and does it
Properly for your sake

 

[LeeUK]

Update:

They came back this morning, dug a bit more up so it is a bit deeper now but I wouldn't say it's level all over plus the pile of rubble is still there so they obviously haven't dug more out on the patch it's sitting on. They have dumped a pile of dolomite also.

They have now left again after under 2 hours of work and saying they might get here tomorrow afternoon (because he has a another job on!) to do the rest and wack the the dolomite down, if not they say it's going to be all done on Saturday morning in ready for the concrete being delivered.

So even after I voiced my concerns last night and asked for a proper explanation they are still talking BS and changing what they are saying and doing as they go along. A 2 day job is now going to be at least 4 days, which was originally supposed to start Wednesday last week.

They have also left a big steel grid to reinforce the concrete with but I'm a bit sceptical if it actually fits the whole area or if they are just going to plonk it in the middle and hope for the best.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

I'd cut my losses and tell them where to get off personally. How does the old theme tune go? "Cowboys, don't trust the cowboys..."

 

[SeatIbiza]

I hope you've been providing a safe place for them to tie their horses up? Along with suitable water troughs and feed for the nags?

 

[Abyss]

Sounds to me like he's got another bigger job on the go and is trying to do your job at zero labour cost by pulling people across from his other project when there's downtime.

If it was me I'd be demanding to sign off the base has been constructed in accordance with what was agreed before laying the concrete, even if it means delaying the concrete pour. His strategy is clearly going to be to rush it quickly Saturday morning then start pouring; at which point it's too late for you to do anything about it.

 

[LeeUK]

I was ready to sack them off last night but the inconvenience of having a half-dug up back yard and pile of rubble to contend with, along with trying to get someone else to come and sort it calmed me down a bit. Getting people to take on the job in the first place was hard never mind someone willing to finish off someone else's mess.

I did think their quote was too cheap but now I know why.

 

[Abyss]

I was ready to sack them off last night but the inconvenience of having a half-dug up back yard and pile of rubble to contend with, along with trying to get someone else to come and sort it calmed me down a bit. Getting people to take on the job in the first place was hard never mind someone willing to finish off someone else's mess.

I did think their quote was too cheap but now I know why.

I'd probably give them two choices:
- Build in the time for you to review that the base is constructed inline with what you agreed to, either by finishing the base on Friday and walking it with them or delaying the pour.
- Be paid for the works on site that can be valued and pull off site. You'll need to be clear you're not paying any hidden or abortive costs for concrete wagons, labour booked in etc.

Cash in hand jobs from random guys on Facebook might seem tempting but they aren't worth it personally. On the flip side I feel your pain, I struggled to get quotes for my path and when I did they wanted a weeks labour for 2 guys and a load of hire costs including a mini digger for a simple 1.2x10m path. In the end I did it myself in 3 days inc hand digging and I certainly can't dig or lay at the pace tradesman can.

 

[ANDARIAL]

I hope you've been providing a safe place for them to tie their horses up? Along with suitable water troughs and feed for the nags?

 

[LeeUK]

Yes that's what I think he's trying to do, rush everything down with concrete on top so I don't have a chance to look and inspect the base.

He's saying the concrete is booked for Saturday morning, if true then that is not going to leave him much time to finish everything else off on Saturday morning considering yesterday and today they didn't turn up until 10am. To be honest I doubt the concrete is even booked and it won't get poured on Saturday as they'll have come up with more excuses by then.

I would have been happy if it was all dug out, cleared, and hardcore down and compacted on one day and the concrete pour the next, or even a one or two days in between if it was due to booking slots or whatever. From the work they did in 2 hours yesterday they could have had this done in a day if they had put a full day in.

Also thinking back, some of his excuses for being late was because he was in a queue at B&Q or trying to track other "supplies" down. Yet when he did turn up yesterday they didn't bring anything!

I even had it out with him last night that if he couldn't get supplies because of covid, or if the distance for him to travel is too far, then he shouldn't have took my job on or been straight from the start regarding delays. He said the distance isn't a problem yet I think it is seeing as he said he didn't want to come back for a second load of rubble on the same day. I understand the recycling place he takes the rubble to is an hour and a half round trip.

 

[LeeUK]

Today's work:

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Bodgeit and scarper job
Already understand why you don't want to just fire them
I would insist they cancel the concrete pour until you are happy with the preparation though
Or its going to get poured on regardless
And they will be demanding the cash
Before the concretes even dry
Obviously no contract means you haven't agreed no payment for 30 days which would be what I would do with a reputable company

 

[LeeUK]

I've voiced my concerns again and told them that no concrete is getting poured until I'm happy with the preparation so I've suggested to them that they either come and do it tomorrow, or cancel the concrete for Saturday and not order it again until prep is all done.

They are not getting paid on the day it's poured either even if they demand or not. It's going to be paid by bank transfer aswell as I'm not faffing on going to cash machines.

 

[LeeUK]

Cash in hand jobs from random guys on Facebook might seem tempting but they aren't worth it personally. On the flip side I feel your pain, I struggled to get quotes for my path and when I did they wanted a weeks labour for 2 guys and a load of hire costs including a mini digger for a simple 1.2x10m path. In the end I did it myself in 3 days inc hand digging and I certainly can't dig or lay at the pace tradesman can.

It just seems you can't get a tradesman to just come and do just a job that you want done these days for a fair price. It's either these type of cowboys off Facebook, or it's firms who want to provide the "complete lifestyle package" like firms who only lay block paving or resin driveways from design to install. Same with glazing companies, it's whole house or nothing, not just the one window you want replaced etc.

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

I've voiced my concerns again and told them that no concrete is getting poured until I'm happy with the preparation so I've suggested to them that they either come and do it tomorrow, or cancel the concrete for Saturday and not order it again until prep is all done.

They are not getting paid on the day it's poured either even if they demand or not. It's going to be paid by bank transfer aswell as I'm not faffing on going to cash machines.

good for you mate
hopefully putting your foot down may get some results
and at least bank transfer gives a record you payed some one unlike cash
guessing they wont take credit card as that would cover you better

 

[j.col]

As a driveway/patio installer YOU ARE BEING SHAFTED

That job is no where deep enough, the top pic above that shows the slabs, those slabs are usually 50mm (2") thick and he is barely lower than them.
Its not essential, but we always lay a sheet of plastic under concrete, it stops it drying too fast and its stronger in the long run as the concrete cures better, next week is suppposed to be hot as well

Depth should be a minimum of 100mm (4") of concrete not including the hardcore base, he will try and say he did dig 100mm out but he is using 50mm hardcore and 50mm concrete which is not strong enough
He actually didnt need to put hardcore base in, but as its cheaper than concrete, thats why he used it,

reinforcing bars are also not essential, we rarely use them on domestic driveways

to check depth, get a length of wood to go across the area and measure down or get a length of string and 2 helpers, hold it onto old driveway and path, pull it tight and measure from string to the top of the base
An old dirty trick is they will leave it deeper around the edges so it looks like they dug it out properly, but it will be high in the middle, only way to check is mentioned above

edit, if he gets funny with you, mention you will check with trading standards, for them to check the job when its finished