Synology NAS for backup?

Coojeekitten · 19 May 2020 at 13:55

I'm aiming to put a NAS in my garage for backup. It would be connected by network cable over powerline. I have a lot of video & image files, my wife has image files, so it's not really viable to do this by a cloud system (Crashplan etc) due to the length if time uploads would take.

I was thinking of a Synergy, either 2 or 4 disk. I'm looking at the moment at a DS218 or DS420j as both will take a 0degC operating environment.

Does anyone have experience of the Synergy backup software & how it works? I would like to keep old versions of files.

AndyWilson · 19 May 2020 at 15:03

I'm guessing you mean Synology not Synergy

I'm sure others will have more sophisticated backup suggestions but here's what I've just started doing.
Just testing and having a play at the moment - comfortable with that as most data I have is already backed up to DropBox/Google Drive etc.

I use desktop software called "Duplicati" to backup desktop files to my first 2 bay NAS.
Then I use Synology HyperBackup on NAS #1 to backup to NAS #2, then HyperBackup again on NAS #2 to backup to an external USB.
Both were very straightforward to setup.

The external USB at some point post-lock down I'll start rotating it out and keeping versions at a relatives house.

You can get HyperBackup as a desktop client as well but I've not tried that so far.

The only downside is that HyperBackup and Duplicati use their own compressed backup formats, though that may not bother you.
I've tested a couple of restores and that seems to work really well so far.

You can configure how many backups to keep in both
For Duplicati the "Smart" backup option automatically keeps "one backup for each of the last 7 days, each of the last 4 weeks, each of the last 12 months. There will always be at least one remaining backup."
You can set a similar option in HyperBackup with "Smart Recycle"

You could also of course simply copy your files directly onto the NAS box or use robocopyu / rsync or similar depending on your OS/ability.

Can't comment on the feasibility of using Powerline - you could always run Ethernet out there, that's a max of 100 metres if memory serves.

Coojeekitten · 19 May 2020 at 15:17

Thank you

I tweaked the thread title.

I will look at Duplicati. It would be a big job to get ethernet out there, maybe easier to have some sort of Wifi. I will try Powerline with a pc first to see if it works.

EssexBoy · 19 May 2020 at 15:20

ignore my post was cloud based.

Coojeekitten · 20 May 2020 at 08:57

I'm looking at the Synology DS420j with 4 disks - probably WD Red.

Would RAID 6 be ok to go for? It's for backup only, I would prefer fast write speeds.

Armageus · 20 May 2020 at 09:08

Coojeekitten said:
Would RAID 6 be ok to go for? It's for backup only, I would prefer fast write speeds.

With only 4 disks then your options are either RAID6 or RAID10:
- RAID6 will tolerate any 2 drives failing, but write speeds will be slower due to writing 2 parity stripes. Rebuilding a failed drive also puts more strain on the remaining drives
- RAID10 will tolerate at least 1 drive failure (2 if they are on different mirror pairs), write speed will be faster, and rebuilding is a lot quicker (as it's just a copy of a single drive - no parity calculations).

RAID5 shouldn't be used as the risk of a 2nd drive failure during rebuilding is too great. The Synology specific modes SHR/SHR2 are equivalent to RAID5/RAID6 but allow mismatched drive sizes, however SHR2 wouldn't offer any benefit in your use case with only 4 disks.

https://www.synology.com/en-uk/support/RAID_calculator

Coojeekitten · 20 May 2020 at 10:13

@Armageus thanks for your help. It looks as though RAID 6 & 10 both have the same storage hit, so it's just my use case.

As this is a backup only, plus it's a secondary backup, rebuild speed is not a big issue. I need it to continually run in the event of a single drive failure. So RAID10?

Armageus · 20 May 2020 at 10:41

Coojeekitten said:
As this is a backup only, plus it's a secondary backup, rebuild speed is not a big issue. I need it to continually run in the event of a single drive failure. So RAID10?

You don't say how much space you actually need, but for a secondary backup personally I'd be going a bit simpler and cheaper. DS218 and two large disks in RAID1.

Given that you also don't have cloud backup options, then it's worth considering another secondary backup option - even just something as simple as a USB drive that gets plugged in once a week and then kept offsite or in your car or somewhere else. (At least then you have a different option to restore from, in the event of corruption being mirrored between your nas', or even something as unlikely as your house burning down)

Coojeekitten · 20 May 2020 at 12:02

Thanks

I have a USB backup which I run weekly.

The DS218 looks possible, although I could get the DS420J & just put in 2 disks? I need about 12tb (minimum 8tb). The garage is about 50m from the house.

Armageus · 20 May 2020 at 12:09

Coojeekitten said:
Thanks

I have a USB backup which I run weekly.

The DS218 looks possible, although I could get the DS420J & just put in 2 disks? I need about 12tb (minimum 8tb). The garage is about 50m from the house.

Probably better to get a 4 bay model then and run RAID10 - means you could use smaller drives (e.g. 6TB or 8TB Drives) or larger if you want room for expansion. 2 drive model would be limiting for the capacity you need/may want in the future.

Coojeekitten · 20 May 2020 at 12:13

Yup, I just checked & the DS218+ has a min operating temp of 5degC, I need 0degC. I can't find the DS218, maybe an old model?

Looking like the DS420j with 4x 6tb WD Red & RAID 10.

Snapshot · 20 May 2020 at 16:21

Just so you know how things work, the last two digits of the name are the year that NAS was released; the digit(s) before that are the maximum number of drives it can handle including expansion units. The Synology web site lists DS218+, DS218 and DS218j in descending order of desirability.

Personally I'd go for the DS420j (or DS418) and use RAID10 so I agree with your choice. I don't see any advantage to RAID6 with only four drives. Move to five or more and the argument changes.

I'd also try to avoid powerlines as their real-world throughput is poor.

Coojeekitten · 20 May 2020 at 21:22

Thanks, I need 0degC capability & seem to be restricted by that. The DS418 for instance is 5degC.

Powerline is my only realistic option. To be fair, until I bought a Roku, I was streamling Netflix over powerline to my TV.

Coojeekitten · 20 May 2020 at 21:49

Hi again

I've come down to the DS1019+. It has 0degC operating & 5 drive bays which means I can buy cheaper 4tb drives & use RAID6. Loads of upgradability. I'm still tryign to figure out the backup features. What do you guys think?

The recommended WD Red drives are CMR not SMR. What is the difference between these techs please?

bledd · 21 May 2020 at 01:51

Personally, I use Veeam Agent (it's free)

https://www.veeam.com/windows-endpoint-server-backup-free.html

This backs up all my PCs to the Veeam share that I've created. Easy to use

Coojeekitten · 21 May 2020 at 11:14

bledd said:
Personally, I use Veeam Agent (it's free)

https://www.veeam.com/windows-endpoint-server-backup-free.html

This backs up all my PCs to the Veeam share that I've created. Easy to use

I've used EaseUS for my PC USB backup. I like being able to browse the backup files & even load as a virtual drive. Veeam could be more complex than I need perhaps.

bledd · 21 May 2020 at 12:49

Coojeekitten said:
I've used EaseUS for my PC USB backup. I like being able to browse the backup files & even load as a virtual drive. Veeam could be more complex than I need perhaps.

The Veeam Agent is very simple, can mount in Explorer (mounts them in C:\VeeamFLR ), can create a bootable recovery USB drive. Many options with it, without being complicated

.

I was so impressed with the Veeam Agent, I moved all of the backups in work to the full version of Veeam.

Used to use Macrium as my main backup at home, now I only use it for migrations etc. Veeam Agent is on all my machines at home, it just sits there and works. No drams

Coojeekitten · 21 May 2020 at 13:10

I will check it out.

Snapshot · 29 May 2020 at 17:43

Coojeekitten said:
Hi again

I've come down to the DS1019+. It has 0degC operating & 5 drive bays which means I can buy cheaper 4tb drives & use RAID6. Loads of upgradability. I'm still tryign to figure out the backup features. What do you guys think?

The recommended WD Red drives are CMR not SMR. What is the difference between these techs please?

Sorry, missed this. CMR = Conventional Magnetic Recording = good. SMR = Shingled Magnetic Recording = bad. SMR is bad because the way it caches pre-write data to CMR areas of the drive can cause major slowdowns when it flushes the cache.

Destination · 31 May 2020 at 16:37

Coojeekitten said:
Thank you

I tweaked the thread title.

I will look at Duplicati. It would be a big job to get ethernet out there, maybe easier to have some sort of Wifi. I will try Powerline with a pc first to see if it works.

They are replacing several models later this year, q3 is target