furlough and pay cut

[Resident]

2/3s of our workforce are furloughed (myself included). As it stands the minimum period you can be furloughed is 3 weeks. So our bosses have decided that after the 3 week, the workforce that are currently still working will go on furlough and 1/3 of the current furloughed staff will return to work.

As expected, those on furlough are being paid 80% however those at work are on 100% of their normal wages.

I would certainly be telling any employer that expected me to carry on working and only be paid 80% of my normal wage to do one, regardless of whether I was working in the office or from home and especially if my workload had increased.

 

[Wizzkidy]

95% of our workforce have been furloghed and all directors have taken a 20% cut and I have lost my car allowance which is a reasonable amount of money per month, I am working from home.

I think your lucky to have a job in this climate so get on with it I say, granted u have propped the business up but when things go back to normal I would be putting evidence together as to why you deserve a pay rise!

 

[HangTime]

Might be optimistic to be expecting big pay rises, especially at organisations that have taken a financial hit and/or going through redundancies. If they are cutting the wage of an essential worker now I wouldn't bank on them throwing money at him.

 

[Hades]

Not ideal but I would suck it up right now if I thought the company genuinely needed to do it to survive.

 

[Mike B]

Simple option is to say you can't afford a paycut and to be travelling to the office which is essential for the role.

They will most likely just forget they even asked you.

 

[Bald-Eagle22]

I’m guessing 80% of your salary given what you do won’t exactly be a pittance ? Sure it might not cover all you mortgage or bills buy you’ll probably be able to negotiate something with your creditors to sort things out . Much like most of the UK population.

I’ve just had 2 prime examples of this with employees on furlough, both asking to take other jobs as 80% didn’t cover thee living costs , both hadn’t organised mortgage or car loan holidays . They have both been asked not to take other jobs due to the sensitive nature of our work , we are now waiting for HR to give us some advice .

‘As crappy you as the deal looks for you now ask yourself this , when everyone returns to work full time in probably September what’s you company going to do with the staff that are now on furlough? I’m sure like most some will be made redundant, I wouldn’t be rattling anyones ass at the moment and you might just find you come out the other end the hero with a brand new cant refuse contract . Causing issues now will probably have repercussions further down the line.

As far as senior managers and directors not coming into the office , believe you me most are hating the situation probably more than you. It’s a continued rollercoaster of contingency planning of how the future of a post lockdown business will look , the added stress of health and safety now in the work place ( does your office have enough room ) and also phased returns of staff to the work place . Oh and then there is also the axe list - yes we created ours this week - not nice .

My advice is Take one for the team , your really don’t want to be in the job market come October . It’s not going to be a pretty place !

 

[Energize]

I wouldn't accept a 20% pay cut if you have a 6 month notice period and are critical for the company, worst case scenario is you resign on full pay for 6 months giving you plenty of time to find another job.

 

[Peter UK]

I wouldn't accept a 20% pay cut if you have a 6 month notice period and are critical for the company, worst case scenario is you resign on full pay for 6 months giving you plenty of time to find another job.

Kind of this. They can't unilaterally force a paycut on you, it's a contract variation which you would have to agree to, if you make it explicitly clear that you don't agree then the ball is in their court. So it really depends on how aggrieved you feel and how hard you want to push things. If you do that then from that point they basically have two options:
- Make you redundant (they still have to pay out your notice at the rate in your contract and most likely also redundancy pay)
- Just start paying you 20% less and hope you don't go further

The tricky part is if they take the second option. If they do that and you continue to work for them, you've essentially accepted the variation by continuing to work under those circumstances. You'd have to make a formail complaint, and then when it wasn't resolved, resign and take them to a tribunal for constructive dismissal, which right now might take a considerable amount of time to conclude.

If you end up going down the second route I would suggest having a brief consultation with a solicitor before resigning.

 

[Journey]

Am I being a knee jerking crazy man, what would you do?

Ask yourself one question, are you happy where you work normally, when a situation like this isn't going on? If the answer is just maybe, or a firm no then IMO just tell your boss you aren't happy with the situation explain to them your side of things, and if they are reasonable they will compromise if they need you, otherwise I'd refuse the 20% cut and see a solicitor with regards to your rights if forced to resign due to it.

If the answer is yes, then you need to consider if you can use the extra work and sacrifice you gave to your advantage once it is all over, and end up with your 20% back plus a bit more for many, many more years.

 

[cheesyboy]

Don't think I'd take a 20% pay cut whilst being expected to work harder, when I've got the security of a 6 month notice period and 13 years of statutory redundancy pay (plus any contractual redundancy pay, if you happen to have any). Not to mention being very difficult to replace.

 

[Energize]

Don't think I'd take a 20% pay cut whilst being expected to work harder, when I've got the security of a 6 month notice period and 13 years of statutory redundancy pay (plus any contractual redundancy pay, if you happen to have any). Not to mention being very difficult to replace.

Well 12 years.

 

[Semple]

I wouldn't accept a 20% pay cut if you have a 6 month notice period and are critical for the company, worst case scenario is you resign on full pay for 6 months giving you plenty of time to find another job.

As the last few posts have said, if you're truly the last one working on site, and having to do extras whilst other employees are furloughed, then i wouldn't agree to the 20% paycut and cite all those reasons. Lets face it, if the majority of people in the company are either being furloughed, or taking a 20% cut themselves, the loss of having to pay one person 100% will be insignificant. You don't have to agree to the paycut btw!

 

[Conanius]

I have no idea who your boss is or what relationship you have with senior people in the business.

I would suggest a quiet word with one of your more senior colleagues suggesting that, you understand the incredible pressure the business is under, but the cut is impacting you more than you expected. Could they reconsider your cut based on the high (higher than normal ) utilisation you have, and continue to provide.... or words like that.

They'll see this as a sounding board for 'what are you doing?' ... one would hope.

Good news is, you have *a* job, and they didn't simply lay you off. You've also got a load of experience to get onto your CV when you do decide to leave.

 

[muon]

If I had 6 months notice I would refuse the paycut.

It's a variation on your contract which you can disagree with.

If they aren't bluffing they could make your redundant I guess, but you would get 6 months full pay at least.

 

[Energize]

If I had 6 months notice I would refuse the paycut.

It's a variation on your contract which you can disagree with.

If they aren't bluffing they could make your redundant I guess, but you would get 6 months full pay at least.

Plus 13-20 weeks of redundancy pay depending on how old he is come to think of it.

 

[DanTheMan]

Have you actually spoken to your senior management?

There's not a chance I'd take a pay cut whilst being utilised more than ever. Especially if you can show direct evidence of you generating income for the business during such measures.

Anyone still working during this crisis should be on 100% pay; only those on furlough should be taking pay cuts imo.

 

[Andreworex]

Have you actually spoken to your senior management?

There's not a chance I'd take a pay cut whilst being utilised more than ever. Especially if you can show direct evidence of you generating income for the business during such measures.

Anyone still working during this crisis should be on 100% pay; only those on furlough should be taking pay cuts imo.

Just an update, the 20% cut is in place until November! 7 months at 20% less pay for me, that is SEVERAL thousands of pounds in lost income.

I tried talking to them, they just use the "well xyz company is cutting 20k staff" and I kid you not "you should be lucky you have work at this time" - that was the straw that broke the camels back to be honest.

If they don't see the wrong in cutting someone that has been loyal to the company for 13 years, designed, built and support the ENTIRE IT infrastructure, including some of the countries largest installations for critical communications then I will leave, i'm not paid highly, average at best and if you consider taking a laptop on holiday to reset passwords and reboot servers as a perk, no perks.

With that, I put my CV online, within a day I had several interviews all paying better, closer to home and part of a team! decided on which one to go for and handing my notice in as soon as I pass the conditional offer (security/sensitive job so needs enhanced vetting), it will be 3 months notice which given they cut my pay 20%, I will cut my notice also as I see fit, swings and roundabouts and all that.

Any company that decides to treat its critical staff in such a way deserves the fall out, they will spend on recruitment fees and the 2 members of staff minimum they will need to replace me what they should have just paid me in the first place, business world is a funny thing.

looking forward to having 1 area to focus my attention on rather than scatter gun across the spectrum of IT and IT Management.

 

[currantloaf]

Just an update, the 20% cut is in place until November! 7 months at 20% less pay for me, that is SEVERAL thousands of pounds in lost income.

I tried talking to them, they just use the "well xyz company is cutting 20k staff" and I kid you not "you should be lucky you have work at this time" - that was the straw that broke the camels back to be honest.

If they don't see the wrong in cutting someone that has been loyal to the company for 13 years, designed, built and support the ENTIRE IT infrastructure, including some of the countries largest installations for critical communications then I will leave, i'm not paid highly, average at best and if you consider taking a laptop on holiday to reset passwords and reboot servers as a perk, no perks.

With that, I put my CV online, within a day I had several interviews all paying better, closer to home and part of a team! decided on which one to go for and handing my notice in as soon as I pass the conditional offer (security/sensitive job so needs enhanced vetting), it will be 3 months notice which given they cut my pay 20%, I will cut my notice also as I see fit, swings and roundabouts and all that.

Any company that decides to treat its critical staff in such a way deserves the fall out, they will spend on recruitment fees and the 2 members of staff minimum they will need to replace me what they should have just paid me in the first place, business world is a funny thing.

looking forward to having 1 area to focus my attention on rather than scatter gun across the spectrum of IT and IT Management.

A cut till November is ridiculous and now they will have all the added costs and stresses recruiting to replace you. Sounds like it has had a positive outcome for you. Hope everything goes through smoothly!

 

[Fishman]

Forced pay cut = constructive dismissal / breach of contract?
Should try and get a settlement, decent redundancy package and move to new job

 

[HangTime]

it will be 3 months notice which given they cut my pay 20%, I will cut my notice also as I see fit

I thought it was 6 months notice?
Sounds like a good outcome anyway, they might have thought you were a bit of a lifer who would stick around (having been there 13 years and perhaps with a lot of proprietary knowledge not easily transferred elsewhere).