Pay in lieu of notice

[ukdk]

My wife was made redundant at the end of June, she had been on furlough since March.
Her boss told her her employment would end on the 30th June unless an alternative job could be found for her in that time. They did create a job for someone else but never even told her about it so she had no opportunity to apply for it.
He said she would not be required to work her notice period and a payment in lieu of notice would be made.
When she got her final payslip he paid her 3 weeks furlough and one week lieu of notice payment for June plus accrued holidays.
Is this correct as we thought June would be normal pay and the lieu of notice payment would be on top of this.
He also messed up the notice as she is entitled to 3 weeks not 1 and was not too happy having this pointed out.

 

[HangTime]

I believe this depends when she was formally informed of her end date. If she had 3 weeks notice and was told one week before the 30th June then I would expect her to get normal for June plus two weeks in lieu of notice, but I'm not sure how to interpret your statement i.e. was 30th of June the date on which the communication was made?
Also when you say she was made redundant, there might additional statutory redundancy pay due. How long had she worked there?
That's my take on it, but I'm not an expert on employment law.

 

[ukdk]

Thank you for your reply.
She was told on the 26th May.
She had worked there for 3 years would have been 4 in August.
She was given statutory redundancy pay.
She was told she would not be required to work her notice and would receive a payment in lieu of notice.
It is confusing and she is trying to speak to citizens advice as well about this.

 

[DanTheMan]

If I've read it right, your wife is entitled to statutory redundancy pay at the full rate of pay, furlough will not affect this. Her employer will only be able to claim 80% of the pay back and it sounds like they are either misinformed or are withholding pay.

https://www.cipd.co.uk/knowledge/fundamentals/emp-law/redundancy/coronavirus-guide

https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/notice-periods

 

[Semple]

I think what's probably not clear is whether the 30th June was the last day of her "notice" or if the 30th June was the start of the notice. If the latter, then i would have expected to have been paid furlough for the whole of June, and then effectively 3 weeks full pay from the 30th June, of which being pilon would mean that that her employment would have finished on the 30th June.

Perhaps the employers "mess-up" was thinking pilon was only a week, and therefore her notice would have been 23rd June to cover the final week.

I would definitely seek some advice there, as it sounds like they've royally messed up the dates.

 

[ukdk]

Thanks it may be that i have not explained it properly.
She got the statutory redundancy the query is to do with payment in lieu of notice.
He told her she would be employed until the 30th June and she would not be required to work her notice but would receive payment in lieu of notice instead.
Thanks for the links will have a read and see if they help.

 

[ukdk]

I think what's probably not clear is whether the 30th June was the last day of her "notice" or if the 30th June was the start of the notice. If the latter, then i would have expected to have been paid furlough for the whole of June, and then effectively 3 weeks full pay from the 30th June, of which being pilon would mean that that her employment would have finished on the 30th June.

Perhaps the employers "mess-up" was thinking pilon was only a week, and therefore her notice would have been 23rd June to cover the final week.

I would definitely seek some advice there, as it sounds like they've royally messed up the dates.

Thanks this sounds like what may have happened but it is really confusing.

 

[pepp77]

Interesting bit on here about notice during Furlough - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/leaving-a-job/redundancy/redundancy-notice-period/

 

[ukdk]

A small update.
When she got her payslip it showed she had been paid furlough for June and one weeks pay in lieu of notice.
She queried this saying it should have been three weeks but he then said no it was two.
She pointed out to him she was entitled to three weeks pay in lieu of notice on Friday.
He got back to her yesterday evening and said he had overpaid her and that she should have had one weeks furlough payment the rest being her payment in lieu of notice and that she owed him money.
He did say she did not have to repay this, which is odd as the redundancy was supposed to be for financial reasons.

 

[DanTheMan]

A small update.
When she got her payslip it showed she had been paid furlough for June and one weeks pay in lieu of notice.
She queried this saying it should have been three weeks but he then said no it was two.
She pointed out to him she was entitled to three weeks pay in lieu of notice on Friday.
He got back to her yesterday evening and said he had overpaid her and that she should have had one weeks furlough payment the rest being her payment in lieu of notice and that she owed him money.
He did say she did not have to repay this, which is odd as the redundancy was supposed to be for financial reasons.

That doesn't make sense?

If furlough pay is paid at 80% of salary and payment in lieu of notice is paid at 100%, then 1 week furlough pay + 3 weeks pay in lieu is more than 3 weeks furlough pay and 1 week pay in lieu.

He's underpaid her!

 

[randomshenans]

Sounds like a complete **** show of a place to work!

 

[khrall]

I would also check what her contractual notice period was. I think every job I have had is 4 weeks after passing probation, until you hit year 5, then it goes up to 1 week per year.

 

[HangTime]

A small update.
When she got her payslip it showed she had been paid furlough for June and one weeks pay in lieu of notice.
She queried this saying it should have been three weeks but he then said no it was two.
She pointed out to him she was entitled to three weeks pay in lieu of notice on Friday.
He got back to her yesterday evening and said he had overpaid her and that she should have had one weeks furlough payment the rest being her payment in lieu of notice and that she owed him money.
He did say she did not have to repay this, which is odd as the redundancy was supposed to be for financial reasons.

OK I've got a possible explanation for this.

She was told in May, which means that her notice period would commence as soon as her furlough ended. In the original calculation, they had her down to be on furlough to the end of June (for some reason), and then paying what they thought was in lieu of notice period, 1 week.
Now she's challenged them on this, they've gone back and looked at it properly, determining that actually they don't need to furlough her for the whole of June at all. All they needed to do was give her a weeks furlough in June (presumably when the "3 week block" ends), then pay the remaining 3 weeks in lieu of 3 week notice period. So it's quite conceivable that she owes them money, if 4 weeks furlough plus 1 week normal pay is greater than 1 week furlough plus 3 weeks normal pay (if furlough is at 80%, that would be 4*0.8 + 1 = 4.2 weeks pay vs 0.8 + 3 = 3.8 weeks pay).

For the sake of less than half a week's pay, it's probably not worth the hassle for them to argue with her over it, hence they are letting it slide. There's also a question mark over how they communicated it i.e. did they give the employee the impression they were on furlough for longer than they actually were, and probably don't want to get locked into any legal debate about that.

I think a key question would be, did the employer apply for / claim furlough to 30th of June, or did they only claim 1 week furlough for June.

 

[ukdk]

Thanks for the reply's.
Some very useful links provided thanks for those.

looking at the citizens advice info it says if paid in lieu of notice your job ends straight away but he told her her job would end on the 30th June and she would be paid in lieu of notice so i presume this means she should have got paid as normal for June and then received the payment in lieu plus redundancy and holidays.

On the first final payslip he has paid furlough for the whole of June and then one weeks pay in lieu of notice he changed this when challenged and paid one week furlough and the rest as her notice.

When challenged on other points he has changed his version a few times so he is untrustworthy to say the least.

To make matters worse my wife was livid as was i when she found out he is going to be rewarded with a bonus for keeping some of his staff while she gets the reward of the benefit system.