They should have used Taser on all of them...

[Hades]

Because it was a medical ward, not the place to be questioning the suspect of an assault. Hence why he was asked repeatedly to go somewhere else.

That doesn't explain why I am ignoring the alleged victim. So how am I ignoring the alleged victim?

 

[Dis86]

That doesn't explain why I am ignoring the alleged victim. So how am I ignoring the alleged victim?

By not having the potentially dangerous individual retrained and removed from the vicinity! The victim has a right to justice which you're wanting to waylay for the feelings of the perpetrator.

 

[Hades]

By not having the potentially dangerous individual retrained and removed from the vicinity! The victim has a right to justice which you're wanting to waylay for the feelings of the perpetrator.

Justice for the alleged victim and ensuring a safe environment for the victim are two different issues:

1) Justice - The alleged attacker can be talked to at a later date. As mentioned they know who he is, where he lives and where he works. This has no bearing on justice.

2) Safety - Normally I would agree the alleged attacker should be spoken to immediately. I probably would have agreed with you years ago. But anyone with an ounce of compassion should understand that this is not a normal situation. The father was appearing as calm on camera and did not seem to be a threat to anyone (clearly neither of us were there and what we see on the camera may not be the full situation as I have already said). In those circumstances I continue to feel the police were very heavy handed and lacked any compassion. It would appear to me that a more appropriate response would have a counsellor sit and talk with the father, at the bedside if necessary, while the police warn him that a repeat would result in immediately removal, thereby giving him a second chance at such a distressing time.

I don't see how dragging the father away like that has benefited anyone or our society as a whole. I see that lack of compassion in our society now as just so depressing.

 

[Dis86]

Justice for the alleged victim and ensuring a safe environment for the victim are two different issues:

1) Justice - The alleged attacker can be talked to at a later date. As mentioned they know who he is, where he lives and where he works. This has no bearing on justice.

2) Safety - Normally I would agree the alleged attacker should be spoken to immediately. I probably would have agreed with you years ago. But anyone with an ounce of compassion should understand that this is not a normal situation. The father was appearing as calm on camera and did not seem to be a threat to anyone (clearly neither of us were there and what we see on the camera may not be the full situation as I have already said). In those circumstances I continue to feel the police were very heavy handed and lacked any compassion. It would appear to me that a more appropriate response would have a counsellor sit and talk with the father, at the bedside if necessary, while the police warn him that a repeat would result in immediately removal, therfby giving him a second chance.

I don't see how dragging the father away like that has benefited anyone or our society as a whole. I see that lack of compassion in our society now as just so depressing.

So you have a medical professional, trying to help patients and you want to leave the man who just assaulted that person in the hospital with them. Sure. Sensible idea. It's not going to impact their mental state and potentially put other patients health at risk as a result. Not at all.

 

[Hades]

So you have a medical professional, trying to help patients and you want to leave the man who just assaulted that person in the hospital with them. Sure. Sensible idea. It's not going to impact their mental state and potentially put other patients health at risk as a result. Not at all.

If I recall the details I read (and I may be wrong) the father pushed him when trying to get back into the ward. I don't think he came in and randomly started beating up the staff and patients. This is a very specific situation.

We aren't going to agree on this and frankly I'm not interested in whether you agree with me or not. So let's leave it there. You are welcome to your opinion, as am I. I've stated my view based on what little I know and I can stand in front of the mirror at the end of the day and be comfortable that I tried to understand this man's feelings and what he was going through.

 

[Uther]

I don't know the full story about why they were being asked to leave. In my experience hospital staff tend to do everything possible to let the family be with a dying relative at the end. The family did not appear to be causing a scene at the start of the video although we don't see what happened before. So there may be more than we are seeing on the video. Either way my deepest sympathies go out to the girl and her family.

But I know for a fact that if it were my daughter I would have refused to leave. They would have to drag me out of there too. I'm sorry but a parent needs to be there at the end wherever possible. We also don't know whether the girl could hear what was going on. If she could then it would have been very distressing for her in her final minutes when all she would want was comfort from her parents.

There is so little compassion and empathy in this country now. It's very sad.

Very much this. I can only assume a lot of the posters in this thread don't have children of their own.

 

[The Running Man]

Lay your hands on the staff and you're out.

It's a fair cop gov

Reading between the lines this is not the first issue the people had caused.

You could tell by the woman's belligerent response, 'we're not going' to the police that they had little to no respect for the establishment.

Be that the police or the medical staff. Unfortunately you can't have those types in a hospital directly impacting the wellbeing of active doctors and nurses trying to do their job.

 

[McBain]

Guns? Wtf? This is a wind up thread right?

The absolute last thing this country needs is our general police force walking around with guns on an even bigger power trip.

 

[Dis86]

Very much this. I can only assume a lot of the posters in this thread don't have children of their own.

So having kids is a carte Blanche to assault medical staff, ignore them and then tell the police to do one?

 

[Uther]

So having kids is a carte Blanche to assault medical staff, ignore them and then tell the police to do one?

If that was my kid they'd have to drag me out of there kicking and screaming.

 

[Dis86]

If that was my kid they'd have to drag me out of there kicking and screaming.

They did. Great late memories you'd be giving the child there. Although in this case a moot point as I don't believe she has significant brain function.

 

[stockhausen]

Very much this. I can only assume a lot of the posters in this thread don't have children of their own.

One can but hope.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

The ignorant bullies assumption? Personal experience. My childhood I was called **** (e: racist term) numerous times whilst being thrown into the back of a van, and I got it easy compared with some friends. As I got older the police seemed to behave with much more respect and honour when conversing with the public, however the past approx 4 years have exposed me to some shockingly ignorant officers who speak without patience or attempt of understanding.

Do you disagree? Or have you noticed it within your troop?

I agree that it is a sad fact that there appendage heads on the force and it is still seen today.

I've been on the force for 20 years now and not once and I mean that - have I used a racial or inappropriate slur to identify someone who has to come into our care and I would take issue with a fellow cop who did. There are likely folks on here who don't believe that but I can only speak from my own experience.

I am far from perfect but in those 20 years I have had four or five complaints and none of them were for excessive force or incivility and I am still working the streets. Simply put, I am a solidly working class lad from the north east and I was brought up with the ' good manners costs nowt ' ethos. There are clearly times when you have to up the ante and go hands on and that has included using choice language - I'll give you and example if you want one - but it is a last resort.

I think a lot of problems today is training. When I joined in 2000 you had two weeks in force, fifteen national then another ten in force before you had ten weeks with your tutor constable.

Now, it is around thirteen weeks and out you go for ten weeks tutoring and one lad I tutored was taken from me after week three to do his driving course. I had to wait fourteen months for mine.

One lad who recently joined us had eight weeks distance learning due to Covid and no practical scenarios although he did come from a PCSO background and has hit the ground running and well but eight weeks ?

I'm not thrilled you got racially abused by a cop mind - far from it. Incidents like that put the cops back years but I do believe that the majority are decent.

 

[The Running Man]

I agree that it is a sad fact that there appendage heads on the force and it is still seen today.

I've been on the force for 20 years now and not once and I mean that - have I used a racial or inappropriate slur to identify someone who has to come into our care and I would take issue with a fellow cop who did. There are likely folks on here who don't believe that but I can only speak from my own experience.

I am far from perfect but in those 20 years I have had four or five complaints and none of them were for excessive force or incivility and I am still working the streets. Simply put, I am a solidly working class lad from the north east and I was brought up with the ' good manners costs nowt ' ethos. There are clearly times when you have to up the ante and go hands on and that has included using choice language - I'll give you and example if you want one - but it is a last resort.

I think a lot of problems today is training. When I joined in 2000 you had two weeks in force, fifteen national then another ten in force before you had ten weeks with your tutor constable.

Now, it is around thirteen weeks and out you go for ten weeks tutoring and one lad I tutored was taken from me after week three to do his driving course. I had to wait fourteen months for mine.

One lad who recently joined us had eight weeks distance learning due to Covid and no practical scenarios although he did come from a PCSO background and has hit the ground running and well but eight weeks ?

I'm not thrilled you got racially abused by a cop mind - far from it. Incidents like that put the cops back years but I do believe that the majority are decent.

So what could the officers habe done differently on this scenario?

Given that resources are too scarce to spend all afternoon taking two birds down from the tree or appearing to pander to a minority at the expense of the staff at the hospital who had made the complaint?

There is a fine balance here.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

I don't know the full story, don't think we know the full story and I certainly don't believe the Daily Mail is impartial on the subject so I'll withold what I think the cops should have done differently. It's great when you have all the facts to make the right call.

No use of force looks good.

 

[Raz]

Not sure if it's been posted but this may have some further detail -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-53641034

Seems to me that the best position to take on this (given that we don't know all the details) is that it could have been handled better, and did not need to escalate.

Perhaps the father could have been more sensible, difficult to say since we're not in his position - perhaps there are others who would be calm and collected in that situation but I suspect most would not.

Perhaps the police could have been more compassionate, but we don't know the full extent of the assault and thus what the police were expecting from him...

With so much not known it's interesting the direction this topic seems to be going...

 

[Raz]

By not having the potentially dangerous individual retrained and removed from the vicinity! The victim has a right to justice which you're wanting to waylay for the feelings of the perpetrator.

Lay your hands on the staff and you're out.

It's a fair cop gov



Reading between the lines this is not the first issue the people had caused.

You could tell by the woman's belligerent response, 'we're not going' to the police that they had little to no respect for the establishment.

Be that the police or the medical staff. Unfortunately you can't have those types in a hospital directly impacting the wellbeing of active doctors and nurses trying to do their job.

Are you referring to the parents here? That the two doctors had 'little to no respect for the establishment' and that their type can't be in hospitals?

 

[McstylisT]

Watched the footage three times. Couple with sound and one without sound to obtain an overall physical feeling and time scale.

I honestly can’t see any issue with what the police did or how the situation was handled.
They did their job and gave the family many opportunities to leave.
I can understand the situation is unprecedented, but the hospital were at a stage where there was nothing more they could do, and it was they that called the police due to the family refusing to leave the bedside. There is no correct time to leave a dying child’s bedside, it’s something we can only fear about. But they needed to leave.

If a police office asks you to do something, you do it. Especially if you are warned That if you resist again you will be arrested. There is no other option for the police. None.

plus the fake scream by the mother, upon being touched by a female office was disgraceful. She even threw herself to the floor.

unfortunately it isn’t the polices job to have an opinion on the situation, just to assess it and act accordingly. Which was to move the family from the bedside.

it’s been overly reported. Terrible family situation, but not a case of police wrongdoing at all.

 

[The Running Man]

Are you referring to the parents here? That the two doctors had 'little to no respect for the establishment' and that their type can't be in hospitals?

Yes, you can't have people in hospitals who are willing to to push medical staff or try to bully them.

You could see by the ladies response how difficult they were being with the police, just imagine what they were like with the hospital staff with no police or security around.

Unacceptable practice.

 

[The Running Man]

At the end of the day as McstylisT said, the police have to assess on the spot, they don't know if the family have been drinking, are likely to be more violent to staff or themselves etc

I suspect had the mother and father been, for example, irish travellers (see thread on them and the thread about law and (dis) order) most of the people defending their actions in this thread would likely have a different viewpoint...