They should have used Taser on all of them...

Raz

Raz

Soldato
Joined
18 Sep 2003
Posts
5,184
Location
Nowhere
Yes, you cant have people in hospitals who are willing to to push medical staff or try to bully them.

You could see by the ladies response how difficult they were being with the police, just imagine what they were like with the hospital staff with no police or security around.

Unacceptable practice.

Yes, because one emotionally-charged incident gives us enough information to determine everything about them. It's almost like you've already decided the worst of them and that's the point you're going to argue for irrespective of any context etc.

They are both doctors, although the wife retired I think. Do you know how they were with their patients? Do you know how they were with colleagues? Were they bad doctors? Did they have numerous complaints or incidents where they were aggressive, rude or just took time out from their work to go around assaulting people and sticking two fingers up at the establishment? Do you know any of this?

I don't. All I know, from the media, is that there was an incident where the father pushed a doctor who was stopping him from seeing his daughter (not exactly representative of his character here), didn't respond well to the police and was then pretty much assaulted himself. I've already said that the whole situation could have been better dealt with, and there's not much else since we've not been given the whole picture.

Yes, leaving his daughter and going with the police would have been the correct and sensible thing to do, but I've never been in his position, and I hope I never am.
 
Capodecina
Soldato
Joined
30 Jul 2006
Posts
12,129
When I worked in London, I frequently "pushed" people in order to get on or off a tube train, people frequently "pushed" me to get on or off a tube train - I can't recall anyone accusing anyone of violence, assault or aggression and I have absolutely no recollection of the Police ever being called.

Perhaps those were gentler, less Politically Correct days where a mere touch was not considered to be GBH ;)
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
37,804
Location
block 16, cell 12
Ye
Yes, because one emotionally-charged incident gives us enough information to determine everything about them. It's almost like you've already decided the worst of them and that's the point you're going to argue for irrespective of any context etc.

They are both doctors, although the wife retired I think. Do you know how they were with their patients? Do you know how they were with colleagues? Were they bad doctors? Did they have numerous complaints or incidents where they were aggressive, rude or just took time out from their work to go around assaulting people and sticking two fingers up at the establishment? Do you know any of this?

I don't. All I know, from the media, is that there was an incident where the father pushed a doctor who was stopping him from seeing his daughter (not exactly representative of his character here), didn't respond well to the police and was then pretty much assaulted himself. I've already said that the whole situation could have been better dealt with, and there's not much else since we've not been given the whole picture.

Yes, leaving his daughter and going with the police would have been the correct and sensible thing to do, but I've never been in his position, and I hope I never am.


Yep they did if you read the article

Rashid’s arrest was the last of many flashpoints with clinicians during the final years of Zainab’s life. He was arrested in February 2019 at another hospital after it was claimed he had refused to leave his daughter’s ward and was ‘agitated’. He was later de-arrested due to concerns over his health.

The couple were also investigated by social services and police following allegations that they were ‘obstructing medical access to Zainab’.

This included claims they had changed their daughter’s medication, given her a drug that had not been prescribed and given her too much oxygen at home.

The disagreements between Zainab’s parents and her doctors intensified when she fell dangerously ill last July and was admitted to hospital for the final time. On August 16, Rashid was banned by the hospital from visiting his daughter between 5pm and 9am because it was claimed a junior doctor had felt ‘threatened and intimidated’ by him during a dispute over Zainab’s care.

Medical staff later called police when Rashid did visit, but officers calmly handled the situation and he was allowed to stay.


Basically yeah if you don't read the article then you probably won't understand how many times not one but two hospitals had had to call the police on the parents.

This assault of a senior consultant was the final straw.
 

Raz

Raz

Soldato
Joined
18 Sep 2003
Posts
5,184
Location
Nowhere
Basically yeah if you don't read the article then you probably won't understand how many times not one but two hospitals had had to call the police on the parents.

This assault of a senior consultant was the final straw.

Fair enough then. I do still think it could have been dealt with in a better way, but if it was a recurring issue then it is what it is.

Confirmation bias on my part perhaps...
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
37,804
Location
block 16, cell 12
Fair enough then. I do still think it could have been dealt with in a better way, but if it was a recurring issue then it is what it is.

Unfortunately these details are buried like a footnote in the article. The agenda right now is, ' police brutal and bad, everyone else good.

Otherwise the whole scenario could have been pointed out inthe first couple of paragraphs giving the true context of the story.

No.one is happy that a little girl died, thats the tragedy here, but she had a genetic disease which is very sad and was unlikely to ever fully recover.
 
Soldato
Joined
25 Mar 2008
Posts
9,181
If a nurse/doctor decided to lie for some reason about the father pushing another Dr I am sure they would be outed very quickly due to other witness statements, CCTV and anything else



What the actual ****? There is basing opinions on the current information available and there is making stuff up as you go along (is that you Donald?).

Even basic common sense dictates a Dr/nurse is unlikely to make a false accusation about violence towards them from the father of a dying child simply to make their decision (based on all available information, asked to leave many times peacefully) justified.

Get away from the internet mate. You need to live life a bit and take off the tin foil hat.
Ugh. The point I'm making is that the posters railing against the parents are happy in this circumstance to accept heresy evidence as fact, and accept that a push is assault, where, in other circumstances, they argue the complete opposite... And it's clear which sort of prejudice they are seeking to maintain with that logical inconsistency.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
32,917
Location
Northern England
Unfortunately these details are buried like a footnote in the article. The agenda right now is, ' police brutal and bad, everyone else good.

Otherwise the whole scenario could have been pointed out inthe first couple of paragraphs giving the true context of the story.

No.one is happy that a little girl died, thats the tragedy here, but she had a genetic disease which is very sad and was unlikely to ever fully recover.

Entirely this.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
1 Aug 2004
Posts
12,678
Location
Tyneside
Unfortunately these details are buried like a footnote in the article. The agenda right now is, ' police brutal and bad, everyone else good.

Otherwise the whole scenario could have been pointed out inthe first couple of paragraphs giving the true context of the story.

No.one is happy that a little girl died, thats the tragedy here, but she had a genetic disease which is very sad and was unlikely to ever fully recover.

Bang on.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
17 Nov 2003
Posts
36,743
Location
Southampton, UK
I don't know the full story, don't think we know the full story and I certainly don't believe the Daily Mail is impartial on the subject so I'll withold what I think the cops should have done differently. It's great when you have all the facts to make the right call.

No use of force looks good.

I've missed your posts.

There are lots of small details that we're not privy to that can completely change how people view this. All I see is a load of assumptions. No use of force looks good and I feel for the family, but that's not to say that the actions weren't justified.
 

Raz

Raz

Soldato
Joined
18 Sep 2003
Posts
5,184
Location
Nowhere
I've missed your posts.

There are lots of small details that we're not privy to that can completely change how people view this. All I see is a load of assumptions. No use of force looks good and I feel for the family, but that's not to say that the actions weren't justified.

I admit that I missed out some significant details in the reports, but generally speaking there needs to be more openess from the police, or at least greater coverage by the media (but obviously everyone has their own agenda).
 
Man of Honour
Joined
17 Nov 2003
Posts
36,743
Location
Southampton, UK
I admit that I missed out some significant details in the reports, but generally speaking there needs to be more openess from the police, or at least greater coverage by the media (but obviously everyone has their own agenda).

The problem is, especially in this instance, there is a certain need for a grieving family to have a bit of privacy - as well as being conscious that until their daughter dies, she also has a right to privacy. It's hard to be completely open and transparent when you have these considerations.
 

Raz

Raz

Soldato
Joined
18 Sep 2003
Posts
5,184
Location
Nowhere
The problem is, especially in this instance, there is a certain need for a grieving family to have a bit of privacy - as well as being conscious that until their daughter dies, she also has a right to privacy. It's hard to be completely open and transparent when you have these considerations.

True.

I am generally supportive of the police, more so after working with them for a number of years. We had to deal with quite a few rotten apples, but also dealt with many more instances when officers put their lives on the line to save others, or went beyond what was expected to help and support others.

One of the big things though was a lack of transparency, and while it's an evolving process it does mean that there's always going to be a lack of trust in police actions, particularly when we have incidents involving minority groups etc.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
32,917
Location
Northern England
True.

I am generally supportive of the police, more so after working with them for a number of years. We had to deal with quite a few rotten apples, but also dealt with many more instances when officers put their lives on the line to save others, or went beyond what was expected to help and support others.

One of the big things though was a lack of transparency, and while it's an evolving process it does mean that there's always going to be a lack of trust in police actions, particularly when we have incidents involving minority groups etc.

Lack of transparency? The only sources most seemed to go off in here were 3 badly written and quite obviously biased articles. Transparency wouldn't change any of that.
 
Permabanned
OP
Joined
15 May 2006
Posts
4,107
Location
London
If the guy had commited crime why was he not charged for anything? Was he not charged because he committed no crime. Also if my daughter was on her death bed and someone was trying to prevent me from being next to her i would unleash hell on that person, not just give them a gentle push.
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
32,917
Location
Northern England
If there guy had commited crime why was he not charged for anything? Was not he not charged because he committed no crime. Also if my daughter was on her death bed and someone was trying to prevent me from being next to her i would unleash hell on that person, not just give them a gentle push.

He wasn't charged because the hospital didn't press charges...
If you did that hopefully the police would taze you so your daughters last memory was you ******* yourself like a child. Do her proud.
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
58,912
The story is confusing as it says the police were originally called by the father after he pushed a member of staff.

The staff were getting a bit fed up with the family as they wouldn't adhere to visiting times and were trying to refuse the hospitals decision on the care for the child.

The child had been in this state for 2 years, and despite minor improvements when the child was given steroids was not going to recover.

The parents wanted to continue for as long as possible.

The staff wanted to restrict the visiting hours of the parents as they had been threatening towards the staff presumably because the parents wouldn't stick to visiting hours and disagreed with the next steps.

Thats my understanding.

That’s what is seems like tbh... story is a bit misleading. The family are being completely unreasonable - staff have enough to do without some idiot kicking off in an ICU ward... he’s able to come back to visit the next day and the day after etc... it’s selfish and unfair on the other patients.

He’d apparently been aggressive on a previous occasion too.

I get that he’s got a dispute with the hospital re: withdrawal of treatment but AFAIK that wasn’t happening right there etc... she had been in that state for a while and it seems more like he’s just overstaying visiting hours and being hostile to the staff.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
32,917
Location
Northern England
That’s what is seems like tbh... story is a bit misleading. The family are being completely unreasonable - staff have enough to do without some idiot kicking off in an ICU ward... he’s able to come back to visit the next day and the day after etc... it’s selfish and unfair on the other patients.

He’d apparently been aggressive on a previous occasion too.

I get that he’s got a dispute with the hospital re: withdrawal of treatment but AFAIK that wasn’t happening right there etc... she had been in that state for a while and it seems more like he’s just overstaying visiting hours and being hostile to the staff.

Yup. However police = bad is the only line being trotted out by the news sites.
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
37,804
Location
block 16, cell 12
If the guy had commited crime why was he not charged for anything? Was he not charged because he committed no crime. Also if my daughter was on her death bed and someone was trying to prevent me from being next to her i would unleash hell on that person, not just give them a gentle push.

You can be kicked out of a hospital even if you don't commit a crime.
 
Back
Top Bottom