What is white privilege?

[Hagar]

I’m struggling with the concept. Any idea what these particular issues are?

If a white person lives next door to a black person, both from the same social and economic background I’m finding it particularly difficult to understand why a person with a different shade of skin will find it harder to access the countryside over his or her white neighbour. When the only accountable difference is one of skin colour.

I would think it more cultural than economic reasons. Maybe tramping through fields and fells with sheep and their leavings is more of one culture than another. I have been sat on Snowden when a party of Asian young people reached the summit. Parched, frozen and signally unprepared, I shared my supply of chocolate with a couple. They related that they had been dropped by a coach at Pen-y-Pass and just followed the path to the summit that was pointed out. They did not seem to realise the implications of a twisted ankle or blisters for their safe return.

 

[inogen]

I’m struggling with the concept. Any idea what these particular issues are?

If a white person lives next door to a black person, both from the same social and economic background I’m finding it particularly difficult to understand why a person with a different shade of skin will find it harder to access the countryside over his or her white neighbour. When the only accountable difference is one of skin colour.

It might come as a shock, but a lot of BAME people do not come from the same social and economic background as the white fella next door.

 

[Hagar]

It might come as a shock, but a lot of BAME people do not come from the same social and economic background as the white fella next door.

We had the Kinder Trespass when working class white people decided to use the moors and hills above Manchester for recreation. Following the second world war, all ages took to their feet and bicycles, forming clubs for cycling and hiking in the countryside. That is cultural, a little bit economic but mainly culture extending through working and middle class Britain.

It has **** all to do with privilege, it's just part of one cultural heritage and not another.

 

[Caracus2k]

Yes. It is. And there are plenty of studies that show that BAME groups, especially in urban areas, are over represented in the poverty stakes too.

BAME is a ridiculous term for thoose who are too cowardly to say what they mean....namely "not white"

Its also ridiculous because when talking about a lot of the metrics it's applied to (for example poverty) as it conceals the fact that the sub groups within 'BAME' have rather large differences between them to the extent that many of thoose sub groups outperform the thoose that aren't 'BAME'.

The simple demonstrable fact is that one of the most important factors in determining how well someone will do in life is their own attitude towards study, work and family.

An awful lot of this is derived from the 'cultural norms' that a person adopts from their family and thoose around them.

Its clear that some subcultures are inferior to others when it comes to achieving academic, economic and occupational sucess.

It's not 'racist' if you personally act in a way that is less conducive to your own ultimate success than others even if this is largely a product of the upbringing you received from your family/guardians and whatever community your parent(s) / guardians/ peers etc were associated with.

Just a few weeks ago a section of the supposedly prestigious Smithsonian (The National Museum of African American History and Culture)
put out a chart online in their "talking about race" portal which included a section titled “Aspects and Assumptions of Whiteness in the United States” which included the culture traits, “hard work is the key to success” and “objective, rational linear thinking,”

If you think not following "whiteness" means being lazy, prejudiced and irrational then you deserve to fail in life and its not racist that you follow such an inferior ideology.

This demonstrably can't be accused of being a "white supremacy" position either as it is clear that many "white" sub cultures are inferior to other "non white" ones, even in majority "white" countries when it comes to things like average academic, economic and occupational sucess and avoiding things like incarceration.

 

[rare]

It might come as a shock, but a lot of BAME people do not come from the same social and economic background as the white fella next door.

Thanks, you’ve just reinforced my point. So it’s not on account of skin colour hence the term white privilege is redundant.

However, why would the white guy next door not be from the same social and economic background. Both are living in inner cities, one is working white class one is black working class. Both come from the same background, have the same education, same access to services and are on equal terms financially. In such a scenario, how is the shade of a persons skin stopping them from accessing the countryside.

 

[rare]

Just a few weeks ago a section of the supposedly prestigious Smithsonian (The National Museum of African American History and Culture)
put out a chart online in their "talking about race" portal which included a section titled “Aspects and Assumptions of Whiteness in the United States” which included the culture traits, “hard work is the key to success” and “objective, rational linear thinking,”

If you think not following "whiteness" means by being lazy, prejudiced and irrational then you deserve to fail in life and its not racist that you follow such an inferior ideology.

This isn't demonstrably can't be accused of being a "white supremacy" position either as it is clear that many "white" sub cultures are inferior to other "non white" ones, even in majority "white" countries when ot comes to thinga like average academic, economic and occupational sucess and avoiding things like incarceration.

What is the world coming to when hard work and objective thinking are ‘aspects of whiteness’. It’s absolutely laughable.

 

[Caracus2k]

What is the world coming to when hard work and objective thinking are ‘aspects of whiteness’. It’s absolutely laughable.

It's also risible because "whites", collectively, often don't appear to be the best embodiment of these ideas when compared to some other groups!

 

[explicit4u]

I believe that chart is pulled from an old book written in the 70s, where white people were asked to define their culture.

 

[krooton]

Aspects of whiteness may include ownership of a corner sofa, the wearing of gucci belts, and a prolific amount of defecating through letterboxes.

 

[dowie]

It might come as a shock, but a lot of BAME people do not come from the same social and economic background as the white fella next door.

Then you're talking about social and economic backgrounds... "class", wealth etc.. not "race" per se...

That's distinct from "white privilege" - in fact by bringing it into the discussion you're muddling the term... thus you see some people saying stuff along the lines of "talk to someone on a glasgow council estate about white privilege" and a woke person retorting that white privilege doesn't mean you can't suffer in other ways... just that your race isn't a factor etc..

You've just played into that frequent conflation of the term. I'd also point out that if you're refering to people living next door to each other then often they often do come from similar "class" backgrounds!

 

[Hagar]

Aspects of whiteness may include ownership of a corner sofa, the wearing of gucci belts, and a prolific amount of defecating through letterboxes.

Or could indicate a variety if dispositions, lack of taste, drug dealer, gangster, bankrobber of whatever shade.

 

[inogen]

Then you're talking about social and economic backgrounds... "class", wealth etc.. not "race" per se...

That's distinct from "white privilege" - in fact by bringing it into the discussion you're muddling the term... thus you see some people saying stuff along the lines of "talk to someone on a glasgow council estate about white privilege" and a woke person retorting that white privilege doesn't mean you can't suffer in other ways... just that your race isn't a factor etc..

You've just played into that frequent conflation of the term. I'd also point out that if you're refering to people living next door to each other then often they often do come from similar "class" backgrounds!

Yeah. I get your points. But I never said these were examples of white privilege. I was originally countering people saying that these things are examples of why people think white privilege exists, that don’t hold up to scrutiny. They do hold up and the dismissal of them as nothing to do with race is the epitome of white privilege. It’s basically saying racial discrimination doesn’t exist because you don’t see it. Of course race has something to do with disadvantage in certain circumstances, i don’t see how that’s up for debate.

 

[arknor]

It might come as a shock, but a lot of BAME people do not come from the same social and economic background as the white fella next door.

when I grew up with black people on my street they had the same bullying at school as the white gets just different words used, parents in similar jobs etc.

black people don';t have it so bad, the asians and Pakistani people are the ones who know true racism and phobia.

travellers get racially abused probably more than anyone in this country, lets face it they aren't welcome anywhere, everyone hates them.

black people think they got it bad? go live as a traveller for a few weeks

 

[inogen]

when I grew up with black people on my street they had the same bullying at school as the white gets just different words used, parents in similar jobs etc.

black people don';t have it so bad, the asians and Pakistani people are the ones who know true racism and phobia.

travellers get racially abused probably more than anyone in this country, lets face it they aren't welcome anywhere, everyone hates them.

black people think they got it bad? go live as a traveller for a few weeks

yeah, I have some Bangladeshi mates. I don’t envy them. They’re quite well to do but...

acknowledgment of this doesn’t make me guilty of anything because I’m white. Dismissal of it... well I’m not so sure...

 

[wesimmo]

This popped up on my Facebook feed today.

This thread would seem to reinforce their findings.

https://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

 

[Trusty]

This popped up on my Facebook feed today.

This thread would seem to reinforce their findings.

https://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

More like this

"There are multiple examples of very bright conservatives and not-so-bright liberals, and many examples of very principled conservatives and very intolerant liberals," Hodson said.

No evidence to suggest there are low iq racists in this thread, but there are plenty of examples of intolerant liberals

 

[enkoda]

Here's an idea - they could put it online.

Of course, people who make random unsupported assertions could explain their well known "established definition" or even post a link or two to support their deliberate misuse

Am I reading this correctly: you think referring to a dictionary definition of a word is a random unsupported assertion?

 

[stockhausen]

Am I reading this correctly: you think referring to a dictionary definition of a word is a random unsupported assertion?

I must have missed your quoting from any dictionary at all, you just seemed to be making an unsubstantiated claim.

However, I am happy to rely on online dictionary definitions and I still think that your logic that the term "white privilege" is being "deliberately misused" by some unnamed person or persons "in order to project collective guilt" is flawed.

 

[enkoda]

I must have missed your quoting from any dictionary at all, you just seemed to be making an unsubstantiated claim.

However, I am happy to rely on online dictionary definitions and I still think that your logic that the term "white privilege" is being "deliberately misused" by some unnamed person or persons "in order to project collective guilt" is flawed.

Have you even watched the video in question?

 

[dowie]

Yeah. I get your points. But I never said these were examples of white privilege. I was originally countering people saying that these things are examples of why people think white privilege exists, that don’t hold up to scrutiny. They do hold up and the dismissal of them as nothing to do with race is the epitome of white privilege. It’s basically saying racial discrimination doesn’t exist because you don’t see it. Of course race has something to do with disadvantage in certain circumstances, i don’t see how that’s up for debate.

It might do but you’d be conflating these things if you use economic disadvantage as an example of it alone. If you want to show white privileged or black disadvantage then you need to show where that exists.

Without doing that and simply relying on outcomes you end up with lazy arguments - racism of the gaps fallacy etc...

In fact then by the same logic you can come up with stuff like “Jewish privilege”... that was bizarrely trending on twitter recently - lazy argument that they’re a successful group... assumption that that equals privilege based on their group identity (even though that isn’t demonstrated).... and you get people stirring up antisemitism.

I’m not saying racism doesn’t happen, I would however question how much of an impact it currently has these days. Simplistic arguments about outcomes are rather flawed, just as say the entirety of the gender pay gap isn’t in itself an example of sexism as most of it can be explained by other factors.