Apple v Epic...ding ding round 1

Mekrel · 18 Aug 2020 at 16:44

b0rn2sk8 said:
Apple don’t make any game streaming apps. I agree that some policies are not being applied consistently and they need to do better but that isn’t an example of Apple banning apps in favour of its own. I get that Apple Arcade is a thing but that isn’t a competitor for project Xcloud or stadia, just because their games doesn’t mean they are competitors, they are a completely different class of product.

You're right they don't make game streaming apps, but they very much get turnover from native games on the iOS store that xCloud would eat into. You can get PUBG, COD and the like on mobile that have IAPs that have to use the Apple payment system so they can take a 30% cut. Those sort of games are massive with over 100M installs on Android alone for just COD and I would imagine that both the install number and/or gross turnover of COD on iOS will be larger than that, considering Apple users buy more from the app store vs Android users from Google Play.

There is literally no other logical reason why Apple won't allow game streaming services. Obviously Apple won't admit that's the case and they'll hide behind the guise that it's down to "user experience concerns".

hyperseven · 18 Aug 2020 at 16:44

It seems Apple have kicked epic off their development programme. So won't this will hurt app devs that unreal as their engine of choice? (I haven't the foggiest on Apple app development)

b0rn2sk8 · 18 Aug 2020 at 16:46

They haven’t kicked them off, they gave them 14 days to sort their apps out.

No, apps are developed as standalone so it only effects epic themselves.

hyperseven · 18 Aug 2020 at 16:51

b0rn2sk8 said:
They haven’t kicked them off, they gave them 14 days to sort their apps out.

No, apps are developed as standalone so it only effects epic themselves.

Sorry, it was just a tweet I read.

They have until the 28th to sort it out.

So games on iOS don't use unreal? Thought it was on everything.

b0rn2sk8 · 18 Aug 2020 at 17:11

Games do use unreal but they are sandboxed on the device and don’t share resources. Kicking off epic as a publisher isn’t suddenly going to mean loads of other games also stop working.

Where it will get tricky is if epic decides to stop supporting/developing the iOS version of the game engine because of this spat. That will have an impact on 3rd party developers, but that’s ultimately an agreement between epic and the developer and not Apple.

HACO · 18 Aug 2020 at 17:12

hyperseven said:
Sorry, it was just a tweet I read.

They have until the 28th to sort it out.

So games on iOS don't use unreal? Thought it was on everything.

This doesn’t hurt existing apps that use it, but hurts further development on iOS (new titles, new Unreal engine releases). Unreal engine on iOS is a huge deal. No Unreal on iOS means a lot of developers will re-evaluate whether they want to use Unreal at all and may look into alternatives.

I think Epic has no choice but to give in.

mrochester · 22 Aug 2020 at 13:41

Does anyone know why epic defines the iOS app market as something different to the android app market and the playstation app market?

Aren't they all just app markets?

HACO · 22 Aug 2020 at 13:57

mrochester said:
Does anyone know why epic defines the iOS app market as something different to the android app market and the playstation app market?

Aren't they all just app markets?

They make the same claims about the Google Play market.

Their CEO said the difference between mobile platforms and game consoles is that game consoles are sold at no margin, so Sony and Microsoft take their profits from the video games, while the phone industry is highly profitable and don’t need to take extra from the app/gaming revenues. I don’t think there’s any validity in this logic. And Nintendo sells their devices at similar margins to Apple’s, they also charge 30% and Epic has no issues.

Real reason: Tencent’s WeChat app is iOS and Android, not PlayStation and Xbox.

mrochester · 22 Aug 2020 at 13:58

HACO said:
They make the same claims about the Google Play market.

Their CEO said the difference between mobile platforms and game consoles is that game consoles are sold at no margin, so Sony and Microsoft take their profits from the video games, while the phone industry is highly profitable and don’t need to take extra from the app/gaming revenue.

Would stand up in a court of law? Can you be too profitable?

HACO · 22 Aug 2020 at 14:00

mrochester said:
Would stand up in a court of law? Can you be too profitable?

Highly unlikely.

Sony and Microsoft (despite their unhappiness with Apple on App Store policies) are also not siding with Epic here.

mrochester · 22 Aug 2020 at 14:02

HACO said:
Highly unlikely.

Sony and Microsoft (despite their unhappiness with Apple on App Store policies) are also not siding with Epic here.

It seems like an odd argument to make in that it doesn't even make sense.

Rilot · 7 Sep 2020 at 13:15

Based on what I'm hearing the kids in the plaground say (I work in a school), this is hurting Apple's rep more than Epic's.
"Oh, you've got an iPhone? Nah, they're crap. Get a Samsung for Fortnite"

Pigeon_Killer · 7 Sep 2020 at 13:48

That may be the case but considering Epic have gone back to court to argue that Apple's decision to block Fortnite from the app store has potentially caused irreversible damage to the brand it still looks like a massive own goal by Epic.

EPIC: Breach contract, have a ready made legal challenge prepared against Apple, turn it in to a PR stunt = Profit :cool:

Reality: Breach contract, have a ready made legal challenge prepared against Apple, turn it in to a PR stunt = Lose 60% of your Apple user base and go crying back to the judge

Yaayuh! · 8 Sep 2020 at 09:32

Rilot said:
Based on what I'm hearing the kids in the plaground say (I work in a school), this is hurting Apple's rep more than Epic's.
"Oh, you've got an iPhone? Nah, they're crap. Get a Samsung for Fortnite"

What a sad state of affairs

. Kids these days..

VortexA1 · 2 Oct 2020 at 23:34

Rilot said:
Based on what I'm hearing the kids in the plaground say (I work in a school), this is hurting Apple's rep more than Epic's.
"Oh, you've got an iPhone? Nah, they're crap. Get a Samsung for Fortnite"

That makes sense, children are probably obsessed with fortnite so that would go over brand loyalty.

goldy6660 · 3 Oct 2020 at 00:07

It actually surprises me that apple dont do a counter and back something as a competitive approach to fortnight along the same lines like pubg (obvs better) or other.

Scougar · 23 Apr 2021 at 15:02

What's the latest on this?

b0rn2sk8 · 23 Apr 2021 at 15:57

Nothing really, most of the suits in other countries got dismissed and told them to sort it out in the USA.

A few tit for tat exchanges on social media.

A few more companies looking to take advantage have piled on (Tile and Spotify) but no one really knows which way it is going to go.

hyperseven · 23 Apr 2021 at 16:58

Last thing I heard Apple were demanding all sorts or sales figures from Steam who wanted nothing to do with this and think the judge said they needed to hand over such information :confused:

Scougar · 23 Apr 2021 at 19:07

hyperseven said:
Last thing I heard Apple were demanding all sorts or sales figures from Steam who wanted nothing to do with this and think the judge said they needed to hand over such information

At that point it is Apple attempting to leach off of Valve.