Poll: British Grand Prix 2021, Silverstone - Race 10/23

[this_is_gav]

Max opened the steering to give Hamilton a little more room, then turned back in to make the corner. There was nothing wrong with that. He was miles away from the apex himself and gave Hamilton plenty of room.

Hamilton tried the block pass on Verstappen (getting ahead and slowing down on the apex to prevent a cut-back) but that required Verstappen to back off first. Verstappen was fully justified in taking the quicker line - whether he should have done given his championship position is obvious in hindsight, but is a moot point when judging whether any penalties should be applied.

 

[cuke2u]

Agreed, Lewis was very lucky not to have a big off himself by driving into Max. Clearly it was Max's corner and on the fastest corner of the circuit Lewis should not be taking risks with his and Max's lives...

 

[stockhausen]

During the course of the race there seemed to be a discussion between Toto Wolff and FIA F1 Race Director Micheal Masi in which Toto said that he had sent an email claiming that on the basis if some FIA rule, Hamilton was clearly not at fault. Masi said that he didn't access emails during a race. I don't know how this was resolved.

However, in an interview later, Toto seemed to suggest that based on some FIA rule if the car behind was 50% alongside the other car, he had "right of way". I was under the impression that the overtaking driver had to be at least 100% alongside. Whatever, the Stewards decision should be accepted as final.

I do believe that Hamilton repeated the allegedly insane overtake move (sticking a wheel up the inside at Copse) twice later in the race without a crash (Norris and Leclerc?). Horner may have been too busy expectorating dummies to notice those moves at a corner where not even a rookie driver would attempt to overtake


As an aside, listening to a couple of the radio messages between the cars and the pits following the crash I get the feeling that drivers can be given "advice" by the engineers - e.g.:

I was under the impression that this practice was outlawed a while back

 

[Deleted member 651465]

No one seems to be talking about how on lap 1 Max went off the circuit, but kept his foot planted in order to re-join with enough momentum to take Lewis.

The guy was doing everything possible to keep Lewis behind but Lewis mis-judged the corner and clipped Max. Interesting how his tyre came off the rim from a tap too... it almost suggests that the pressure was very low

 

[cuke2u]

On a more serious note, I have just read about all the totally unacceptable racist comments towards Lewis. Now I don't support any football these days because they of racist thugs that spoil it for the real fans. The reason I support F1 is that I thought it has a more mature and serious fan base. I was wrong it seems and the fact it is taking place makes me sick to the core.

 

[Quartz]

I think regardless of RBs whinging about this they will talk to Max behind the scenes and tell him to be smarter. They have a faster car than Mercedes and a driver that is good enough to beat Hamilton in it so there title is theirs to lose. If they are not careful though, they will lose it.

Yes, you only have to look at Vettel for that.

 

[jonneymendoza]

On a more serious note, I have just read about all the totally unacceptable racist comments towards Lewis. Now I don't support any football these days because they of racist thugs that spoil it for the real fans. The reason I support F1 is that I thought it has a more mature and serious fan base. I was wrong it seems and the fact it is taking place makes me sick to the core.

No, read a earlier post i made touching on this.

F1 is actually worse than football in the social media platform and forums of the like.

Its not just racism but just the constant bickering between rival fanboys etc.

It was this bad when vettel and hamilton or hamilton and roseberg where battling.

I have not been to a f1 race since covid but pre covid, everyone was the complete opposite of the people here and others.

everyone was so damm friendly. max fanboys all laughing and enjoying chatting and hanging out with hamilton fanst etc etc and this is my experience camping for 4 days mate.

so so chilled its unbelievable when you hear people here and all around social media basically giving such a bad rep on F1 now.

Redicolous and i have noticed it in the last 3 years.

 

[Yaayuh!]

On a more serious note, I have just read about all the totally unacceptable racist comments towards Lewis. Now I don't support any football these days because they of racist thugs that spoil it for the real fans. The reason I support F1 is that I thought it has a more mature and serious fan base. I was wrong it seems and the fact it is taking place makes me sick to the core.

Do we have the examples of the messages? Are they even F1 fans? Are they troll accounts/bots?

 

[MissChief]

No, read a earlier post i made touching on this.

F1 is actually worse than football in the social media platform and forums of the like.

Its not just racism but just the constant bickering between rival fanboys etc.

It was this bad when vettel and hamilton or hamilton and roseberg where battling.

I have not been to a f1 race since covid but pre covid, everyone was the complete opposite of the people here and others.

everyone was so damm friendly. max fanboys all laughing and enjoying chatting and hanging out with hamilton fanst etc etc and this is my experience camping for 4 days mate.

so so chilled its unbelievable when you hear people here and all around social media basically giving such a bad rep on F1 now.

Redicolous and i have noticed it in the last 3 years.

being relatively anonymous can bring out the worst in some people.

 

[this_is_gav]

The guy was doing everything possible to keep Lewis behind but Lewis mis-judged the corner and clipped Max. Interesting how his tyre came off the rim from a tap too... it almost suggests that the pressure was very low

The rim itself came off (you can see it flying over Hamilton's car). The tyre came off the wheel because there was nothing to hold it on.

 

[this_is_gav]

Do we have the examples of the messages? Are they even F1 fans? Are they troll accounts/bots?

If so please don't post them here. We don't need any more poison.

Report them, condemn them but we don't want to see any of that.

 

[Basher]

Agreed, Lewis was very lucky not to have a big off himself by driving into Max. Clearly it was Max's corner and on the fastest corner of the circuit Lewis should not be taking risks with his and Max's lives...

Of course he should, he's a racing driver.

 

[MissChief]

The rim itself came off (you can see it flying over Hamilton's car). The tyre came off the wheel because there was nothing to hold it on.

Very lucky the tyre didn’t start bouncing and clear the fence tbh.

 

[RobHu]

Interesting race, and very interesting to see the subsequent meltdown on certain forums (*cough* reddit where a few people are literally calling for a season ban).

I do think the penalty was probably justified. Hamilton has an argument that he was significantly alongside at the turn in point but ultimately his trajectory was probably slightly wrong for the corner. A marginal call IMO. That said Max could've avoided the contact by running wider as Leclerc did later in the race. You can see from his onboard that he knew Hamilton was there. I suspect he thought Hamilton would do whatever was necessary to avoid the contact as he has tended to this season whenever Max has been aggressive - He actually made a very similar move on Hamilton in the sprint the day before didn't he? And Hamilton sensibly yielded there to avoid contact. Hamilton I think has had enough of coming off second best in this scenario and decided enough was enough.

Looking forward to seeing what happens at the next race. Will Max learn from this and be a little more cautious or go the other way and end up in another wreck? He has the fastest car so if he's smart he'll just play the percentages as Hamilton has done in recent years, but we'll see!

 

[fez]

People do realise that this sort of racist abuse has been happening forever online. In much the same way that people don't get stabbed in London for only 2 weeks a year, the only reason this is "suddenly an issue" is because the media have picked up on it and its topic de jour. The world is getting less racist every year, its just largely been ignored when a few idiots decide to use their time to advertise that they are scumbags. Now we are publicising it.

Race baiting and identity politics is the hot topic right now and like all the best news it winds both sides of the debate up. Extra points if you have a big bold headline that lures people in and then you offer no actual context or relevant information in the article itself. Its pretty telling that any source that does offer analysis or breakdown is ignored in favour of emotional reporting.

 

[this_is_gav]

Very lucky the tyre didn’t start bouncing and clear the fence tbh.

Tyres don't tend to bounce unless they're still on the rim and have some pressure in them, thankfully. Verstappen might well have dug in, rolled (Alonso at Melbourne style) and vaulted the fence himself if the wheel and hub hadn't still been largely intact.

Schumacher rolled his Ferrari by sliding sideways into the gravel at speed at Melbourne in 2002, and that had all four wheels still still attached.

 

[Alibaba99]

During the course of the race there seemed to be a discussion between Toto Wolff and "Micheal" in the Stewards room in which Toto said that he had sent an email claiming that on the basis if some FIA rule, Hamilton was clearly not at fault. "Michael" said that he didn't access emails during a race. I don't know how this was resolved.

However, in an interview later, Toto seemed to suggest that based on some FIA rule if the car behind was 50% alongside the other car, he had "right of way". I was under the impression that the overtaking driver had to be at least 100% alongside. Whatever, the Stewards decision should be accepted as final.

I do believe that Hamilton repeated the allegedly insane overtake move (sticking a wheel up the inside at Copse) twice later in the race without a crash (Norris and Leclerc?). Horner may have been too busy expectorating dummies to notice those moves at a corner where not even a rookie driver would attempt to overtake

This is covered on the BBC.

What do the rules say?
Mercedes boss Toto Wolff made reference after the race to the stewards' overtaking guidelines, which he said allowed Hamilton to make the move.

These are not distributed publicly, but they have been seen by BBC Sport. They contain images of two cars on entry to a corner, and illustrate when a driver trying to pass has the right to claim it.

They state that if the driver on the inside has "a significant overlap" then "the corner is yours provided you make the corner cleanly". In the image in this illustration, the overtaking car is not even as far alongside as Hamilton was as they turned into Copse on Sunday.

As with so many F1 rules, there is ambiguity there. Hamilton did have a significant overlap, so was entitled to think he could claim the corner and that Verstappen should back off enough to give him the room for both to make it through.

But what does "make the corner cleanly" mean? Verstappen - who has spoken since only in a couple of brief messages on social media - would doubtless argue that Hamilton did anything but. After all, they collided. Hamilton might well counter that he did make it cleanly - even after they had contact.

 

[Goksly]

in my opinion Hamilton just carried too much speed given how tight he was and just understeered into Verstappen

But he made the corner, easily, so didn't carry too much speed? One race they say if you're on the outside you're at the mercy of the person on the inside. Next race, you can't put a wheel on the inside because it's dangerous?
From my POV racing incident. Ham has yielded a number of times, this time he didn't. Either could have backed off, Ham did just way too late - maybe if he left his foot stuck in different wheels would have touched an outcome very different.

From now on it's going to be tasty and 100% I'd not be overtaking outside.

 

[RoboCod]

He had space to his right, he could have conceded.

 

[glenimp617]

The bigger issue with online trolls/racists are those who keep feeding them. IMHO, they are actually worse!