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Intel Xe HPG 448EU gaming performance

Soldato
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Big question over these is stock though. So is that going to drive up the price. Its the mythical MSRP again which we know has never happened with Nvidia and AMD apart from the ones they sold themselves.
The Intel big chief the other week on the BBC said he doesnt expect the chip supply to recover till 2023! Intel might have their own fab but its all the other components that goes on a GPU card that is also the problem whereas with a CPU its basically just the CPU.
 
Caporegime
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When are these due?

Seems like it could be too little too late for intel.

Depending on release dates and supply, these could only be out a few months before amd and Nvidia's next gen blow them out of the water.
 
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I can only hope it forces the current 3060TI and below card to more normal levels. Intel need some market share, so I hope they price 50-100 less AND can deliver volume.

Well, all indications of these well be made solely by TSMC. And as we all know, TSMC wafer are in very short supply.

However, Intel have booked wafers and what else they may have made at TSMC is unknown, so it could be that unlike other players all our nearly all Intel TSMC wafers well be for GPU with no sharing for consoles, CPU etc.

Guess a lot depends on Intel's internal politics: there's the manufacturing group's pride, Koduri's ambitions and whether he could gamble on booking enough wafers, etc.

Oh almost forgot, there is one competitor for using up Intel's TSMC wafers: Intel's ambitions in the GPU Compute and high-end supercomputers etc. since that is after all why Intel want to enter the market. However fat cow some gamers and their willingness to spend big is, it is nothing compared to cracking into the supercomputer, GPU Compute and Cuda market. So expect that to get first dips at any wafers.

When are these due?

Seems like it could be too little too late for intel.

Depending on release dates and supply, these could only be out a few months before amd and Nvidia's next gen blow them out of the water.

On enthusiast forums, "blow out of the water"and similar terms are usually overused though.
Hitting 3070 / 6700 speeds well still be relevant next year too, no matter how much publicity having the "crown" brings.
 
Soldato
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If we are lucky this bring some competition to the low end, which in theory should bring better pricing.Hopefuly it will have a knock on effect on the price of GPUs one or two tiers above.
 
Caporegime
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Most people will probably be buying around the 3070 / 6700XT level even if they have been demoted down the product stack due to newer GPU's getting released, a lot of people have been sitting out this generation due to pricing, if the price is good, but they do have to be cheaper than Nvidia and AMD equivalents, Intel just don't have the mindshare for GPU's and people may be concerned about their games working properly on them.

And the thing is if next year supply gets back to normal and AMD / Nvidia with new GPU's 3070 / 6700XT performance is now $350 Intel may have to do $300 or even as low as $250 to bring meaningful numbers on their side, which is chump change and there are probably no margins in that, especially at under $300.
 
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I wonder whether the Intel brand strength will help sales of these among non enthusiasts. If performance turns out to be in that ballpark then I'm quite impressed for a first attempt. Drivers will be key in gaining acceptance too.
 
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It’s looking like an impressive debut and I’m somewhat excited to see it finally release. I just wish they were using their own damn fabs rather than taking up space on someone else’s.
 
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On enthusiast forums, "blow out of the water"and similar terms are usually overused though.
Hitting 3070 / 6700 speeds well still be relevant next year too, no matter how much publicity having the "crown" brings.

I guess. But if that perf level gets booted down to near the lower tier by nvidia and AMD next year , will Intel be able to sell these chips that low? Presumably the r and d costs of getting into the discreet gpu market and starting from zero isn't cheap so it would be surprising if they could realistically drop prices so much so as to stay competitive.
 
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Most people will probably be buying around the 3070 / 6700XT level even if they have been demoted down the product stack due to newer GPU's getting released, a lot of people have been sitting out this generation due to pricing, if the price is good, but they do have to be cheaper than Nvidia and AMD equivalents, Intel just don't have the mindshare for GPU's and people may be concerned about their games working properly on them.

And the thing is if next year supply gets back to normal and AMD / Nvidia with new GPU's 3070 / 6700XT performance is now $350 Intel may have to do $300 or even as low as $250 to bring meaningful numbers on their side, which is chump change and there are probably no margins in that, especially at under $300.

There are some rumours about die sizes which put the DG2-512 at around 400mm²
What is the process again? TSMC 7nm or 6nm EUV?

In the thread about DG2-512 on here
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34975154/
A THG article was quoted saying it might even be on Intel's own 10nm process.

Anyway, if we went with 7nm and the once quoted by TSMC defect density of 0.09 (which has surely improved since then), then a fully functional 400mm² die would cost $103 / $154 (with 7nm wafer costs @ $10k / $15k).

I guess if they are willing to not make any profit for a while, they could sell those at $250 but it would be tight.
 
Caporegime
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There are some rumours about die sizes which put the DG2-512 at around 400mm²
What is the process again? TSMC 7nm or 6nm EUV?

In the thread about DG2-512 on here
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34975154/
A THG article was quoted saying it might even be on Intel's own 10nm process.

Anyway, if we went with 7nm and the once quoted by TSMC defect density of 0.09 (which has surely improved since then), then a fully functional 400mm² die would cost $103 / $154 (with 7nm wafer costs @ $10k / $15k).

I guess if they are willing to not make any profit for a while, they could sell those at $250 but it would be tight.

Don't know what process its on, but 400mm^2 is quite large, the 6700XT is only 335mm^2
 
Soldato
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At this point I'm concerned at what's going on behind the scenes

It's clear that the product stack is done and Intel can start mass producing these GPUs products right now yet they are delaying it, why? Waiting for better yields? Driver issues?
 
Soldato
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At this point I'm concerned at what's going on behind the scenes

It's clear that the product stack is done and Intel can start mass producing these GPUs products right now yet they are delaying it, why? Waiting for better yields? Driver issues?

Probably targeting a CES 2022 launch and Raja is notorious for sand-bagging.

We may find out more technical details with a presentation on 24th August at 2.30pm PDT @ Hotchips from David Blythe at Intel.

I don't think it matters much at all if the chip launches now or in January, if it hits anywhere near 6700/3070 performance levels it is a win in the bag. AMD and Nvidia are all over the place in the laptop/SFF market right now, i expect thats where Intel will be targeting.
 
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From that NUC 12 leak, it looks Intel's GPU group have been busy with display standards too as that is the first time I have seen Displayport 2.0 anywhere. Plus they've got HDMI 2.1 too although in 2021/22 that should be a given.
 
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At this point I'm concerned at what's going on behind the scenes

It's clear that the product stack is done and Intel can start mass producing these GPUs products right now yet they are delaying it, why? Waiting for better yields? Driver issues?

They need to get the drivers ready, also lets hope that they are taking the time to build up stock so that its not the usual paper launch for a gpu which would make a nice change.
 
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At this point I'm concerned at what's going on behind the scenes

It's clear that the product stack is done and Intel can start mass producing these GPUs products right now yet they are delaying it, why? Waiting for better yields? Driver issues?

Probably a combination of drives, and wanting to launch with good quantity.

Intel is probably trying to avoid the failed AMD paper launch of the 6-series, and the subsequent fiasco that lost many customers in the process.
 
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Soldato
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It will be very impressive if they can match / exceed RTX 3070 performance with the top 512 EU card.

Maybe, they will be able to pump out some more affordable 1080p class cards in time for Christmas, ideally with 8GB of VRAM? At this level, DLSS / upscaling support isn't really a factor (unless it allows play at 1440p).

The smart move would probably be to combine new XE cards with Alder Lake prebuilt systems + combine the graphics card launch with Alder Lake (which will probably only release high end products this year or in January).
 
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