How much WILL you pay for a graphics card?

[Twinz]

Miners voted early and *often*.

These things print money. How much is a money-printer worth?

 

[pooley]

Sorry you can't grasp the idea of capitalism in regards to supply and demand. Having a choice to buy a flagship gpu at a price doesn't mean people have to pay that price, I decided to buy a 6800 rather than a 6900XT even though I could have bought either at the time. However, some of these ex-flagship cards appear on the second hand market and some people like to buy them as they can be better value than a new card, eg I sold a Nvidia 680 for £33, less than a third of the price OCUK were selling a 1030 https://youtu.be/LqC33zFvxzQ?t=68 Is £33 to much to pay for what was the fastest gpu card in the world at the time compared to buying a new card, somebody didn't think so as they bought it!

Sounds like you haven't bought very wisely, a quick check on ebay shows 680s that have sold for cheaper than a new 1030, yet according to you a 680 would be a bad buy as it was a £400 new card v a now £85 plus new 1030 card

you don't half waffle on, make assumptions and obfuscate

 

[ASMB]

you don't half waffle on, make assumptions and obfuscate

Your rude and talk dribble. Lets do some analysis of what you have written,

1. I waffle on because I prove you wrong and you don't like it.
I proved that an ex-flagship 680 can be bought for cheaper than a 1030, and out perform it in games, some games in which the 1030 is below 30 fps and causing stuttering. https://youtu.be/LqC33zFvxzQ?t=68

2. Your also a hypocrite you made sweeping assumptions and statement. That as the 680 was a flagship card it must always be expensive, not so, it has been bought and sold for less than a 1030, while performing better, so at the moment a 680 can sometimes be hand for less cost in fps than a 1030

3. You obfuscate and bewilder people by advising people an ex flagship card simply has to expensive secondhand as they were once expensive brand new, whilst the opposite is true. I sold someone a 680 for less than a third the price of the 1030. So saying I obfuscate is in fact trying to transfer your behaviour onto me

 

[BigBANGtheory]

What we mean by ex-flagship card is something more recent and usable for current titles not playing Unreal Tournament at 1080p on a 10yr old EoL GPU that isn't even supported in the current drivers

2080Ti has decent performance, but its still very expensive 2nd hand as is the 1080Ti... hell even the 980Ti can cost close to £300 ffs. They represent very poor value for money, they will continue to depreciate but also become less relevant just like the 680 and indeed all GPUs.

What is messing with the 2nd hand market is there not being new products offering much better price/performance ratio combined with supply issues and then people paying the inflated prices. The 2nd hand market is not immune to the knock on effects to this, that is the point and why you should care about the situation even if you yourself do not pay big bucks for new products it filters down unless you take yourself out of the modern market all together which effectively is what retro (or 1080p) gaming does.

 

[pooley]

Your rude and talk dribble. Lets do some analysis of what you have written,

1. I waffle on because I prove you wrong and you don't like it.
I proved that an ex-flagship 680 can be bought for cheaper than a 1030, and out perform it in games, some games in which the 1030 is below 30 fps and causing stuttering. https://youtu.be/LqC33zFvxzQ?t=68

2. Your also a hypocrite you made sweeping assumptions and statement. That as the 680 was a flagship card it must always be expensive, not so, it has been bought and sold for less than a 1030, while performing better, so at the moment a 680 can sometimes be hand for less cost in fps than a 1030

3. You obfuscate and bewilder people by advising people an ex flagship card simply has to expensive secondhand as they were once expensive brand new, whilst the opposite is true. I sold someone a 680 for less than a third the price of the 1030. So saying I obfuscate is in fact trying to transfer your behaviour onto me

WTH are you talking about...
1. how have you proved me wrong? and i don't like it.. a 680 from a decade ago! come on lol

2. again you keep talking about this 680. a gpu is so old it nigh on useless, so irrelevant!

3. i have not given any advice so that is nonsense, and my behavior onto you? now you are just being silly!

 

[pooley]

What we mean by ex-flagship card is something more recent and usable for current titles not playing Unreal Tournament at 1080p on a 10yr old EoL GPU that isn't even supported in the current drivers

2080Ti has decent performance, but its still very expensive 2nd hand as is the 1080Ti... hell even the 980Ti can cost close to £300 ffs. They represent very poor value for money, they will continue to depreciate but also become less relevant just like the 680 and indeed all GPUs.

What is messing with the 2nd hand market is there not being new products offering much better price/performance ratio combined with supply issues and then people paying the inflated prices. The 2nd hand market is not immune to the knock on effects to this, that is the point and why you should care about the situation even if you yourself do not pay big bucks for new products it filters down unless you take yourself out of the modern market all together which effectively is what retro (or 1080p) gaming does.

my assumption was correct when i commented on your other post, this is the reality!

 

[ASMB]

you don't half waffle on, make assumptions and obfuscate

Let's look at reality. I said above that I don't have an issue with flagship cards or people buying them as they become available for cheaper on the secondhand market for those who want to buy them. You replied that I don't have a grasp on the situation. However, clearly a quick look on ebay shows people who buy these cards.

Let's look at the situation of the 2080ti as suggested above (for somebody gaming at 4k).

Hardware unboxed puts a 3070 at 80 fps and a 2080ti at 82fps. The 2080ti has a larger amount of memory for games that need it. https://youtu.be/UFAfOqTzc18?t=1098
Cost in second hand shop with 2 year warranty of 2080ti is £770 = £9.39 per frame
Cheapest 3070 at OcUk = £899.99 = £11.25 (rounded)

Clearly a 2080ti makes a reasonable choice, so your advice to me that I didn't have a grasp was made without evidence and clearly unwanted. Also clearly the market is working here as it should, the old flagship card offers a better cost per frame than the newer replacement

 

[pooley]

Let's look at reality. I said above that I don't have an issue with flagship cards or people buying them as they become available for cheaper on the secondhand market for those who want to buy them. You replied that I don't have a grasp on the situation. However, clearly a quick look on ebay shows people who buy these cards.

Let's look at the situation of the 2080ti as suggested above (for somebody gaming at 4k).

Hardware unboxed puts a 3070 at 80 fps and a 2080ti at 82fps. The 2080ti has a larger amount of memory for games that need it. https://youtu.be/UFAfOqTzc18?t=1098
Cost in second hand shop with 2 year warranty of 2080ti is £770 = £9.39 per frame
Cheapest 3070 at OcUk = £899.99 = £11.25 (rounded)

Clearly a 2080ti makes a reasonable choice, so your advice to me that I didn't have a grasp was made without evidence and clearly unwanted

what's that got to do with what i commented on originally? absolutely nothing....

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Nvidia wouldn't even bother selling the 3090 if only a few people bought them. They'd loose millions considering the investment they spent to make it. They literally sell tons and tons of 3090 cards to very happy customers. The same goes for every tier; scalped 3060, scalped 3060 Ti, scalped 3070, scalped 3070 Ti etc. went to very happy gamers.

People vote with their wallet, they always have and they always will. I was merely a minority when I voted against higher prices by keeping my old GPU. The vote for expensive GPU'S has been won by a landslide if you look at Nvidia's record profits.

Expensive GPUs are here to stay. So well done everybody who bought an expensive GPU. You got exactly what you wanted.

Lots of alternatives are now available. You are AMD new line of integrated GPU which are good for 1080p gaming.

You have consoles that can do 4k.

There's cloud gaming. GPU have been expensive for a while. Since 2017/2018 shortage. I remember 1080ti went up to £1500 each back then. So paying £1400 for a 3090 is actually a decent proposal taking the 1080ti at the height of the 2017 shortage into account

 

[KeanuIsLife]

Miners voted early and *often*.

These things print money. How much is a money-printer worth?

This is a fair point.... hopefully with eth 2.0 not being able to be mined next year (fingers crossed) this will reduce the demand! Yes other coins can be mined but I think most is with eth these days

 

[CJ7]

@ OP £650 quid maximum. That's how much any of us should be paying for an RTX 3080. ANY RTX 3080. Not £1400 quid.

 

[KeanuIsLife]

@ OP £650 quid maximum. That's how much any of us should be paying for an RTX 3080. ANY RTX 3080. Not £1400 quid.

That's a nice idea ...I'm just worried that the next gen is going to move up the goal posts again due to so many people willingly buying at these prices

 

[Ajhayter]

I've been trying to think things over on this.
Realistically I've got a performance target that I want to reach. The money isn't the question, I'll just save longer.

I've got a GTX980 and that can handle nearly everything I want to throw at it with the right settings tweaks. The only wall I'm starting to hit is real First World Problems stuff, with iRacing in VR while also streaming, due to it's rendering pipeline being CPU bound, doubly so in VR. There is an nVidia feature that will boost it, in 10 series or later.
It handles Half Life Alyx fine on low with only one or two minor hitches, which ASW handles fine. More modern games I have to run at 1080p instead of 1440p, but many modern games allow 1440p output for the hud while rendering the actual game at 1080p via dynamic resolution modes or render scale modes.

I did plan to try and get a 3060Ti founders to stay within my PSU limits and then avoid upgrading the cpu/mainboard until the DDR5 era. It's unfortunate that this gen of graphics is a significant tech leap from previous gens, with RT that is actually somewhat usable, and very good DLSS.
I'm not against going team Red, but the overall situation isn't that different.

It's a tough pill to think about a 3060Ti significantly above MSRP. A small adjustment is reasonable considering many raw materials have doubled in cost (copper commodities in particular have gone from $3ish in 2018 to a peak of $5 in early 2021, but seems to be on a downward trend again). But then taht ties in to the overall economic demand and wether the Covid rebound slows down (I think it will).

I'd struggle to accept more than £500 for a 3060Ti, and I've set a hard limit of £600 but I'm willing to be patient and see what happens with Eth proof of Stake, and I'm not against buying a mined card.
Ultimatly the GTX980 was £549 on launch and I got a reference one (rear exhaust for use in an ITX case (cm 130)), so if I can make my next upgrade in the same price range and see a substantial performance uplift (which a 980 to a 3060ti would be. About double from what I see online), I'd be ok with that.

The 980 is hanging in there fairly well as it is for a 7 year old GPU and I hope a 3060ti would provide a similar level of longevity.

With the tech changes in place now and in the pipeline I see that as a real possibility.
DLSS will mean I can upgrade to ultrawide and make use of higher refresh rates
I won't upgrade my VR until eye tracking/foveated rendering is standard, which would also boost performance significantly.

The current gen cards seem much more flexible and have more tools to be more useful well into the next decade, but that will depend on how developers come to grips with new engines and systems like direct storage.

 

[KeanuIsLife]

I've been trying to think things over on this.
Realistically I've got a performance target that I want to reach. The money isn't the question, I'll just save longer.

I've got a GTX980 and that can handle nearly everything I want to throw at it with the right settings tweaks. The only wall I'm starting to hit is real First World Problems stuff, with iRacing in VR while also streaming, due to it's rendering pipeline being CPU bound, doubly so in VR. There is an nVidia feature that will boost it, in 10 series or later.
It handles Half Life Alyx fine on low with only one or two minor hitches, which ASW handles fine. More modern games I have to run at 1080p instead of 1440p, but many modern games allow 1440p output for the hud while rendering the actual game at 1080p via dynamic resolution modes or render scale modes.

I did plan to try and get a 3060Ti founders to stay within my PSU limits and then avoid upgrading the cpu/mainboard until the DDR5 era. It's unfortunate that this gen of graphics is a significant tech leap from previous gens, with RT that is actually somewhat usable, and very good DLSS.
I'm not against going team Red, but the overall situation isn't that different.

It's a tough pill to think about a 3060Ti significantly above MSRP. A small adjustment is reasonable considering many raw materials have doubled in cost (copper commodities in particular have gone from $3ish in 2018 to a peak of $5 in early 2021, but seems to be on a downward trend again). But then taht ties in to the overall economic demand and wether the Covid rebound slows down (I think it will).

I'd struggle to accept more than £500 for a 3060Ti, and I've set a hard limit of £600 but I'm willing to be patient and see what happens with Eth proof of Stake, and I'm not against buying a mined card.
Ultimatly the GTX980 was £549 on launch and I got a reference one (rear exhaust for use in an ITX case (cm 130)), so if I can make my next upgrade in the same price range and see a substantial performance uplift (which a 980 to a 3060ti would be. About double from what I see online), I'd be ok with that.

The 980 is hanging in there fairly well as it is for a 7 year old GPU and I hope a 3060ti would provide a similar level of longevity.

With the tech changes in place now and in the pipeline I see that as a real possibility.
DLSS will mean I can upgrade to ultrawide and make use of higher refresh rates
I won't upgrade my VR until eye tracking/foveated rendering is standard, which would also boost performance significantly.

The current gen cards seem much more flexible and have more tools to be more useful well into the next decade, but that will depend on how developers come to grips with new engines and systems like direct storage.

This is all very well thought out and I like your reasoning of thinking of the performance uplift more than the price. Paying the same amount you paid for your old card with a doubling of performance is a nice target. That will be substantial as you've waited so long with that 980, which seems like a beast of a card at the time.
Overall good way of looking at things.

 

[philo-sofa]

Apparently I’ll pay a grand. I decided what the hell, it’s cheaper than a house.

 

[Cadder]

Apparently I’ll pay a grand. I decided what the hell, it’s cheaper than a house.

Can't argue with this logic

 

[Ajhayter]

This is all very well thought out and I like your reasoning of thinking of the performance uplift more than the price. Paying the same amount you paid for your old card with a doubling of performance is a nice target. That will be substantial as you've waited so long with that 980, which seems like a beast of a card at the time.
Overall good way of looking at things.

Thanks, the current plan is to get a 3060Ti, probably for or shortly after xmas, and then wait to upgrade the CPU/Mainboard/Ram until DDR5 and Direct Storage become established and try to skip the DDR4 generation entirely.

 

[rumple9]

Yes I think Direct Storage is going to be a massive benefit to PC gaming and fast nvme will actually be of some use. I'm not so sure DDR5 will make much of a difference though.

This late in the day I'm probably going to sit out 3000 series now and wait for a 4080

 

[KeanuIsLife]

Apparently I’ll pay a grand. I decided what the hell, it’s cheaper than a house.

Hahaha well.......you're not wrong

 

[Villan]

Oh goody...
"TSMC Hikes Price of Chip Production: CPU & GPU Costs Set to Rise"

TSMC Hikes Price of Chip Production: CPU & GPU Costs Set to Rise | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)