Is English the most logical language?

Man of Honour
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i dream in both german (mother tongue) and english as my wife tells me when i'm talking in my sleep :cry::(

also i well jealous of people being fluent in multiple languages and don't seem to have problems switching. when visiting Germany for example i randomly start speaking the wrong language to the wrong person i.e. german to my Mrs :o

I took my mother to Germany donkeys years ago to visit her grandson, (my elder boy, who married a German girl and still lives there), she couldn’t get over the fact that he’d talk to her in English for five minutes, then switch into German to talk to his wife and kids! :eek:
 
Caporegime
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It is bizarre how mis-pronouncing one syllable in French gets you the blank look. I’ve had the same happen when I’ve used the wrong gender for an item as well.

I was at the recycling centre once and asked the bloke that runs the place which skip to lob some polystyrene packing pieces into.

He didn’t get polystyrene at all, so I said something along the lines of “hard white foam inside the box when you get a new TV” and his face lit up “Ah polysteerene!” and pointed at the correct skip.


The genuinely don't understand poor pronunciation though,and English speakers tend to be quite bad

I like to think of it as how english people struggle to understand a strong Scottish accent, and when tbey mimick oen it sounds terrible.
 
Soldato
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In my GCSE French class there was this idiot called Oscar. We had been doing French in the run up to GCSEs for 5 years by that point, and he'd still say "je m'apple Oscar." Typical English thing thing to do in my opinion - not even bother to try and sound French. There are some accents you just can't get away from (Italian, for example), but I don't think a generic English accent is one of them.
 
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I took my mother to Germany donkeys years ago to visit her grandson, (my elder boy, who married a German girl and still lives there), she couldn’t get over the fact that he’d talk to her in English for five minutes, then switch into German to talk to his wife and kids! :eek:

I used to know someone who was completely bilingual in English and Spanish. It struck me when they were on the phone while also talking with someone in the room. They were hearing Spanish in one ear and English in the other ear and that wasn't a problem at all. They were switching back and forth between speaking Spanish on the phone, with what sounded like a Spanish accent to me, and speaking English to a person in the room, with an English accent that sounded like a neutral probably mostly southeastern English accent to me. Also not a problem.

I spent 5 years scraping together enough understanding of French and classical Latin to be able to read rather slowly in those languages and be possibly just about understandable when speaking French badly and slowly because I was thinking in English and translating into French. I'm impressed by people who are even passably competent in 2 or more languages.

I went to France a fair few years ago for a few weeks. In general, my experience was that most French people would have a decent try at understanding me. The impression I got was that most of them were probably thinking along the lines of "It's nice that he's trying, but what the hell is he saying?" Quite often, there would be someone around whose English was a lot better than my French.

On a tangent, language is what started me watching Game of Thrones. I was reading an article on conlangs and there was a clip from GoT as an illustration. It looked cliched - half naked barbarian warlord and civilised lady, blah blah blah. I knew nothing about the characters, plot, backstory...nothing at all about any of it. The dialogue was wholly in Dothraki. Not even subtitled. What struck me was that the actor playing the barbarian warlord was speaking Dothraki fluently, casually and with an accent that fitted the language. They gave every impression of someone for whom Dothraki was their native language, the language they learned as an infant, spoke all the time and thought in. The actor playing the civilised lady was speaking Dothraki pretty much fluently, but not casually. There were slight pauses, particularly at the beginning of sentences. Their accent didn't fit the language. They gave every impression of someone for whom Dothraki was a foreign language they'd learned recently and that they were thinking in another language and translating it into Dothraki before speaking. I thought it was a fine example of acting.
 
Man of Honour
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I used to know someone who was completely bilingual in English and Spanish. It struck me when they were on the phone while also talking with someone in the room. They were hearing Spanish in one ear and English in the other ear and that wasn't a problem at all. They were switching back and forth between speaking Spanish on the phone, with what sounded like a Spanish accent to me, and speaking English to a person in the room, with an English accent that sounded like a neutral probably mostly southeastern English accent to me. Also not a problem.

I spent 5 years scraping together enough understanding of French and classical Latin to be able to read rather slowly in those languages and be possibly just about understandable when speaking French badly and slowly because I was thinking in English and translating into French. I'm impressed by people who are even passably competent in 2 or more languages.

I went to France a fair few years ago for a few weeks. In general, my experience was that most French people would have a decent try at understanding me. The impression I got was that most of them were probably thinking along the lines of "It's nice that he's trying, but what the hell is he saying?" Quite often, there would be someone around whose English was a lot better than my French.

On a tangent, language is what started me watching Game of Thrones. I was reading an article on conlangs and there was a clip from GoT as an illustration. It looked cliched - half naked barbarian warlord and civilised lady, blah blah blah. I knew nothing about the characters, plot, backstory...nothing at all about any of it. The dialogue was wholly in Dothraki. Not even subtitled. What struck me was that the actor playing the barbarian warlord was speaking Dothraki fluently, casually and with an accent that fitted the language. They gave every impression of someone for whom Dothraki was their native language, the language they learned as an infant, spoke all the time and thought in. The actor playing the civilised lady was speaking Dothraki pretty much fluently, but not casually. There were slight pauses, particularly at the beginning of sentences. Their accent didn't fit the language. They gave every impression of someone for whom Dothraki was a foreign language they'd learned recently and that they were thinking in another language and translating it into Dothraki before speaking. I thought it was a fine example of acting.

As is the norm with your posts Angilion, it was precise, informative, and thoroughly interesting, until I reached the final paragraph.
From then on you might as well have been speaking and writing Serbo-Croat with a Mongolian accent, albeit not with the easily understandable Ulan Bator inflections with which I am completely au fait.
Keep on posting, I welcome your input sincerely, but gimme a break with the Game of Thrones stuff, love always, Jean-F.
 
Soldato
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In my GCSE French class there was this idiot called Oscar. We had been doing French in the run up to GCSEs for 5 years by that point, and he'd still say "je m'apple Oscar." Typical English thing thing to do in my opinion - not even bother to try and sound French. There are some accents you just can't get away from (Italian, for example), but I don't think a generic English accent is one of them.

When I did language at school the speaking was difficult for me because of confidence. I think to put on a French or whatever accent when trying to sound the words, can make you feel really silly doing it. When Im practicing the Polish words at the moment I think I sound like Borat.
 
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When I did language at school the speaking was difficult for me because of confidence. I think to put on a French or whatever accent when trying to sound the words, can make you feel really silly doing it. When Im practicing the Polish words at the moment I think I sound like Borat.

When I speak French I say the words how I’m pretty sure is the correct way to say them, I don’t try to imitate how the French person that I’m speaking with says them.
Very often French people ask me if I’m from the South West, as apparently I sound like someone from Bordeaux or Toulouse, although Parisians make me for a rosbif as soon as I open my mouth.
I don’t get the South West bit, as I picked up most of my French as an adult from my family members in Nord and Pas de Calais.
 
Soldato
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When I speak French I say the words how I’m pretty sure is the correct way to say them, I don’t try to imitate how the French person that I’m speaking with says them.
Very often French people ask me if I’m from the South West, as apparently I sound like someone from Bordeaux or Toulouse, although Parisians make me for a rosbif as soon as I open my mouth.
I don’t get the South West bit, as I picked up most of my French as an adult from my family members in Nord and Pas de Calais.

Yeah but like you said, you can't say je m'apple without making the je different from how you would say it in English, and it sounds silly to do it.

In Polish, there are some really strange sounds Im having to make with vowels and it really makes me feel self conscious about it.

I mean, for years into adulthood I didn't know how to properly say 'le mans' or even 'grand prix'. And even now I know how to say it, I would think twice before saying it properly amongst English company for fear of sounding stupid.

It wasn't cool to try hard or try and sound clever in my school.
 
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Yeah but like you said, you can't say je m'apple without making the je different from how you would say it in English, and it sounds silly to do it.

In Polish, there are some really strange sounds Im having to make with vowels and it really makes me feel self conscious about it.
l

I'm fairly sure there are lots of people who are native speakers of other languages who feel the same about English.

I'm also fairly sure there are and have been plenty of native English speakers who've felt the same when they've moved from one part of the country to another that has a different accent. My father moved from Newcastle to the outskirts of London when he was young and he can still swap between full on Geordie to our totally non accented local English ;) pretty much at the tip of a hat if he's talking to another Geordie (when our newest neighbour moved in it was like they were speaking a different language at times). He apparently spent several years learning to lose his accent as a teen and young adult to improve his ability to get jobs down here where no one has an accent (everyone from anywhere lese does though).
 
Man of Honour
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Yeah but like you said, you can't say je m'apple without making the je different from how you would say it in English, and it sounds silly to do it.

I mean, for years into adulthood I didn't know how to properly say 'le mans' or even 'grand prix'. And even now I know how to say it, I would think twice before saying it properly amongst English company for fear of sounding stupid.

It wasn't cool to try hard or try and sound clever in my school.

I don’t get what you mean about saying the word je in English, it’s pronounced zhuh in French, are you suggesting that English speakers pronounce it as jee?
I’m also puzzled about why you feared looking stupid for saying Le Mans as le mon, or grand prix as gron pree, are there really those who think that prix rhymes with six, or say Le Mans as Le Manz?
Saying the words properly isn’t trying hard to sound clever in my opinion, surely it’s more cool to get it right.
 
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To reiterate about fluent in more than one languages and wonder how your brain switch between them? The short answer is that you don’t really, once you reach the level of fluency where there is no translating done in the head and words you hear just go straight into understanding in the head. So while I am taking to someone in one language, if someone walks into the room speaking another I understand, I just understand them as if it’s the same language.

I don’t get what you mean about saying the word je in English, it’s pronounced zhuh in French, are you suggesting that English speakers pronounce it as jee?
I’m also puzzled about why you feared looking stupid for saying Le Mans as le mon, or grand prix as gron pree, are there really those who think that prix rhymes with six, or say Le Mans as Le Manz?
Saying the words properly isn’t trying hard to sound clever in my opinion, surely it’s more cool to get it right.

His head is still stuck in English and its rules. He needs to drop them all totally and start from a blank slate and say it as he is told, not as he thinks it should sound like in English. Sure you can use some knowledge in English to associate it, when it applies, say for memory purposes but for the most part, I would just drop it and start afresh.
 
Soldato
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I don’t get what you mean about saying the word je in English, it’s pronounced zhuh in French, are you suggesting that English speakers pronounce it as jee?
I’m also puzzled about why you feared looking stupid for saying Le Mans as le mon, or grand prix as gron pree, are there really those who think that prix rhymes with six, or say Le Mans as Le Manz?
Saying the words properly isn’t trying hard to sound clever in my opinion, surely it’s more cool to get it right.

You didn't go to my school.


His head is still stuck in English and its rules. He needs to drop them all totally and start from a blank slate and say it as he is told, not as he thinks it should sound like in English. Sure you can use some knowledge in English to associate it, when it applies, say for memory purposes but for the most part, I would just drop it and start afresh.

I simply cannot make some of the sounds. Like rolling my R's, or the nasally sounds, or this one is particularly problematic for me at the moment: Cześć.

I also don't like my accent generally (blackcountry) and it feels very silly to be making some of these, well I can only describe them as grunts or noises really, not articulated sounds.


Al Murray had it right :D

Spot on.
 
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I simply cannot make some of the sounds. Like rolling my R's, or the nasally sounds, or this one is particularly problematic for me at the moment: Cześć.

I also don't like my accent generally (blackcountry) and it feels very silly to be making some of these, well I can only describe them as grunts or noises really, not articulated sounds.

Practice and practice, it's like yoga, you don't do the splits on Day 1. The throat and tongue is also like a muscle which you can train. You also need to stop feeling embarrassed trying to make the sounds for the word.
 
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To reiterate about fluent in more than one languages and wonder how your brain switch between them? The short answer is that you don’t really, once you reach the level of fluency where there is no translating done in the head and words you hear just go straight into understanding in the head. So while I am taking to someone in one language, if someone walks into the room speaking another I understand, I just understand them as if it’s the same language.
understanding is not the problem for me at all. But my brain gets fried when switching language multiple times within a short span of time when talking to different people. :confused:
the joys of when your own family barely speaks english and my other half doesn't speak german.:p
 
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This is a bonkers thread... Nobody could ever seriously suggest English is the most logical language... except someone who spoke English as a native and hasnt compared to other languages.
 
Caporegime
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This is a bonkers thread... Nobody could ever seriously suggest English is the most logical language... except someone who spoke English as a native and hasnt compared to other languages.
Typical English though isn’t it. Think people are thick cause they speak English without an accent. They forget that they are fluent in another language
 
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