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6600XT and 6700XT price changes

Soldato
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While some of the "our costs have gone up", or "there is a shortage of X" are just excuses, 7nm wafers, and masks, and design costs are genuinely far higher than they were in RX480 era. Plus RX480 was the last time AMD really tried the high volume, lower margins strategy. And it was only moderately successful with the often slower 1060 (especially the 3GB version) vastly outselling it....

Sony's insatiable demand for PS5 chips, and hence TSMC 7nm wafers, is the most obvious explanation of why AMD show not interest in setting the 6600XT's price for high volumes. While they're supply constraint and are selling everything they are able to make, they've no interest to reduce their price.

Agree on this. The latter part they know they can release a fart and it will still sell as nothing is around to dictate prices dropping. Might be better when intel finally get late to the party but dont hold your breath on them undercutting to gain market share!
 
Soldato
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Just to put things into perspective, to get the cost per frame down to £6 or less (based on an average 4K framerate of 51 FPS), you could need to pay around £300 for a RX 6600 XT.

That would get you a slightly lower cost per frame than a RTX 3070 FE, which has a relatively low cost per frame.

If you pay £350 for a RX 6600 XT, that's still only a bit higher, at £6.86 per frame. Unfortunately, that's only a bit more than the official retail price of £329.
 
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Soldato
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That's the thing with guessing, 99.9% of the time it's wrong.


Around 100 dies per 300mmm wafer @ $10,000 per wafer, cost price. 2/3rds will be good dies, another 1/3rd will be partial dies for lower end models, with the edge as scrap. AMD markup is low 40%`s (Nvidia is in the 60% range) then you have the rest of the materials cost. The other matirals (pcbs, chips of various types, cooling system ) all have bother materials and design costs baked in.

The True Cost of Processor Manufacturing: TSMC 7nm - YouTube
 
Soldato
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As the 6600 is not reference its not great using FE prices. Try average out the cost per frame when you use non-FE AIB prices...

The point of that was to show a benchmark for what I believe is good value. £6 per frame seems to be a good number to aim for, as people seem very concerned about value, especially for 1080p cards.

To work out the cost per frame, just get the price paid and divide it by the average framerate. Or, you could use the minimum framerate instead to compare cards.

Your right though, AMD cards don't appear to be good value, because they produce hardly any reference models.
 
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Soldato
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I'd imagine the components for these cost no more than £100.

There's development cost as well. R&D for an architecture costs over a billion. They'd never get that back if they just added a bit of profit onto component cost.

Just like the component cost of a DVD is about 20p but a film studio would never break even if they just added a bit of profit onto that 20p component.
 
Soldato
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There's development cost as well. R&D for an architecture costs over a billion. They'd never get that back if they just added a bit of profit onto component cost.

Just like the component cost of a DVD is about 20p but a film studio would never break even if they just added a bit of profit onto that 20p component.

DDR6 costs money , coolers cost money, the rest of the onboard components cost money (vrms, chokes, signal chips), the pcb costs money. I think 16GB of GDDR6 is about $150, with the 6X ram costing more.
 
Soldato
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People need to stop using Stockholm Syndrome for our hobby,and justifying price increases?? Gamers are just acting like Whales now. The GDDR6 "price" being one of them. None of you have any clue what the actual price AMD/Nvidia/Intel/Sony/MS are paying for any of this which is far less than you think. Remember that report about TSMC jacking up prices?? Apparently its only 5% for AMD being a large customer.

Samsung are also cheaper than TSMC - Nvidia must be paying even less than we think for their chips.

Don't some of you understand these companies might be just putting out fake news about the real prices,to make it easier to price stuff higher?? Do any of you think the large semiconductor companies will tell you the ACTUAL LARGE SCALE and LONGTERM volume pricing?? They won't.

Just like MS charges people £100 for an OEM Windows license but for decades just charged OEMs far less.

Sony can sell the disk version of the PS5,with 16GB of GDDR6,a 300MM2~400MM2 SOC,PCI-E 4.0 SSD - all custom designed,and also no doubt helped contribute towards RDNA2 R and D costs too. AMD is selling a motherboard with a failed PS5 SOC with no GPU and 16GB GDDR6,and I doubt it can be sold for more than a Ryzen 7 3700X and 16GB of DDR4,because it is probably slower(the PS5 CPU has reduced AVX capability compared to desktop Zen2 CPUs).

But,if you look at the net margins of Nvidia/AMD they are all up,and in the case of AMD their console business is lower margin,so they are probably making massive margins on the current GPUs. OFC,they will spin to everyone else they are making a pittance.

Nvidia is even making more per GPU than AMD - people have forgotten that the 2020 Ampere/RDNA2 releases were priced during a pandemic too.All the AIB partners are having record years. Even the arguments about shipping costs seem to forget just before the pandemic costs were at an all time low - the current costs are closer to that 5~10 years ago.

Hardware enthusiasts on tech forums need to stop justifying all these price increases - these companies are laughing in your faces and running away to the bank,and their CEOs getting nice big bonus,on your backs.

Lots of other parts like phones,etc are not seeing similar price increases. Even CPUs seem to have settled down in price. SSDs,PSUs,motherboards,etc all seem to be OK price. Only GPUs seem to be going up by such massive amounts - because the markets is being controlled by mining and gaming whales,who will pay beyond the odds for them. Then use mental gymnastics to pay through the nose for GPUs.

Its like drug addicts justifying whatever price their drug dealer quotes to them.

As Steve from Gamersnexus said - its not really our problem to care about their "cost increases".

Some of you have learnt nothing from your repeated excuse making for the last decade. So many "experts" here justified £1000 Nvidia Titan GPUs back in 2012 because "TSMC 28NM" and "GDDR5" cost a lot more and "R and D" cost a lot.

Yet,the moment they could get away with jacking up the price,their gross/net margins went up massively over the next 9 years.

Companies like Nvidia in 2018,despite record profits and margins paid no Federal taxes - these companies are getting tons of taxpayer support already.
 
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Soldato
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We've only talking about graphics cards, it's not the end of the world if people can't buy them at RRP prices... It will just take some time, that's all.

I think preorders would return some sanity to the graphics card market, but apparently it's still not an option, I suppose retailers still don't think /have confidence that there will be enough stock.

There's nothing anyone can say or do to influence prices, especially on random online forums :D
 
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Soldato
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The estimates are likely a worse case scenario too IMHO - any quoted prices are likely much lower for larger customers who commit to longer contracts and big volumes.

But I have been looking at laptops and prebuilt systems this week. I have seen quite a few laptops with an RTX3060 and a AMD Zen2/Zen3 or Intel CPU for under £1000. Desktop systems with a Ryzen 5 5600X and an RTX3060TI for around £1000.

So its quite clear OEMs are getting these much cheaper than DIY PC builders,and somewhere along the chain people are taking the ****. Plus I will never again believe all the rumours of the "massive" added costs,after the trick Nvidia marketing pulled with the Geforce Titan. Before it was released we had "leaked Nvidia internal slides" showing how "expensive" 28NM was...such a coincidence,right?? :rolleyes:

It wouldn't surprise me in 10 years time we find some of these companies have been colluding to fix prices. Its happened before with Nvidia/ATI being taken to court:
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/nvidia-amd-ati-graphics,6311.html
https://www.theregister.com/2008/09/30/nvidia_settles_lawsuit/
 
Soldato
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Depends on a lot of factors, how many working dies etc etc; the AIBs are making a lot of money though

Assuming this is true, why don't Nvidia and AMD produce a lot more reference models themselves, and cut out the AIBs?

They could set the retail prices higher, if they 'need' to make more profit.

I'm sure Nvidia would have the resources to do this.
 
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