Driveway Opinions

[RockLobster]

I recently had my driveway resurfaced with tarmac. Tarmac was there before. These guys weren't travellers, many good reviews on Facebook, MyBuilder and Google Reviews. Also spoke with previous customers. I'm getting pooling of water in certain areas. These pools of water don't get bigger as there is sufficient run off. I'm getting mixed opinions. Some say I'm being too picky and some say the issue needs to be resolved. Looking at the photos below what are your opinions?

The driveway was finished on Monday and today they came back to view the issue. They said they will reheat sections of the tarmac and use a whacker/roller to create enough indentation to create a bigger channel so the pools disperse quicker. I'm not convinced. I haven't paid yet and interestingly after they left I immediately received an email with payment details. The total cost is £5750. Do you think I should pay so much and hold back a retainer (30%?) until the issue is resolved? I'm slightly concerned if I pay the full amount I won't see them again.

Please see below photos.

Looking towards the house (in this image the puddle towards the middle left).

Away from the house (in the top right of the this image the puddle is my biggest concern)

 

[fastwunz]

doesnt look too bad given the amount of rain we have just had. I wouldnt be paying them until they are completely finished on site though.

 

[whitecrook]

£5750? ? Wow

its not even level.

 

[RockLobster]

£5750? ? Wow

its not even level.

They have done other work to the side of the garage so that’s not just that bit but agreed getting the correct pitch is their bread and butter.

 

[Semple]

I'm not sure i'd want pooling. What happens during winter when we've had a bit of rain and then that puddle turns to ice.

Just had to check but tarmac isn't porous so that water will basically stay until evaporated.

 

[RockLobster]

I'm not sure i'd want pooling. What happens during winter when we've had a bit of rain and then that puddle turns to ice.

Just had to check but tarmac isn't porous so that water will basically stay until evaporated.

This is my biggest concern. At the moment it’s evaporating quickly in winter black ice.

 

[ik9000]

£5750? ? Wow

its not even level.

I think you mean "even". You don't want level. It should be laid to a slight falls (min 1:100, ideally a bit more) towards defined drain points so no ponding occurs. For any roof, surface etc never pay until you've done the hosepipe test. Whacking it when it's set is not the answer IMO, though I would defer to a friendly engineer who can give you some professional guidance.

Yes definitely hold back payment, and notify your insurers legal team if you have cover that way. I wouldn't give them anything further until they've sorted it but I've no idea of the legal situation with that. Companies use the "pay-less notice" method. Check your agreed appointment as to the mechanism description and timeframes etc you need to apply in this case. If there isn't one it presumably defaults to standard law (tort?) and whatever that prescribes.

As you rightly point out in winter any puddles will freeze and can cause safety issues. You're not being fussy. A postie/paperboy who breaks his leg due to black ice on your drive can sue you.

 

[RockLobster]

I think you mean "even". You don't want level. It should be laid to a slight falls (min 1:100, ideally a bit more) towards defined drain points so no ponding occurs. For any roof, surface etc never pay until you've done the hosepipe test. Whacking it when it's set is not the answer IMO, though I would defer to a friendly engineer who can give you some professional guidance.

Yes definitely hold back payment, and notify your insurers legal team if you have cover that way. I wouldn't give them anything further until they've sorted it but I've no idea of the legal situation with that. Companies use the "pay-less notice" method. Check your agreed appointment as to the mechanism description and timeframes etc you need to apply in this case. If there isn't one it presumably defaults to standard law (tort?) and whatever that prescribes.

As you rightly point out in winter any puddles will freeze and can cause safety issues. You're not being fussy. A postie/paperboy who breaks his leg due to black ice on your drive can sue you.

Thanks for the reply. I had ACO drains installed in front of the garage. I'm not sure why they didn't pitch half the drive towards to the ACO and the other half towards the road. We are here now though. I'm no driveway expert but I think the only way of resolving this apart from ripping the whole thing up is digging up the bottom half (drain pipe onwards) and sorting out the pitch via the base layer.

In terms of payment I'm not going to be a complete **** about it. If it did go to small claims court I'm sure the judge/mediation would agree a portion of the money should be paid as the other work they I had done is fine.

It is going to be an interesting conversation on Friday after their supposed fix fails. Will they volunteer to dig up a bigger area or offer a reduction in cost.

 

[ik9000]

Thanks for the reply. I had ACO drains installed in front of the garage. I'm not sure why they didn't pitch half the drive towards to the ACO and the other half towards the road. We are here now though. I'm no driveway expert but I think the only way of resolving this apart from ripping the whole thing up is digging up the bottom half (drain pipe onwards) and sorting out the pitch via the base layer.

In terms of payment I'm not going to be a complete **** about it. If it did go to small claims court I'm sure the judge/mediation would agree a portion of the money should be paid as the other work they I had done is fine.

It is going to be an interesting conversation on Friday after their supposed fix fails. Will they volunteer to dig up a bigger area or offer a reduction in cost.

If they did other work beyond the drive then that is different. I'm talking money for the drive. Until the drive is in a fit state you are entitled SFAIK to not settle your bill provided you write to them explaining the reasons for witholding, and stating once resolved to the agreed spec originally requested you will then pay. Obviously get a lawyer or similar to confirm what is /isn't the correct thing to do so you don't get into a sticky situation.

 

[whitecrook]

Yes good point. Level/even. Should have a pitch.

 

[norm]

Was there not enough fall from the garage to the road? If not then a central channel drain with both sides falling towards it would have been the answer albeit more expensive to install.

 

[koolpc]

How much!!!!!!!!!!! Yikes!!!

 

[RockLobster]

Was there not enough fall from the garage to the road? If not then a central channel drain with both sides falling towards it would have been the answer albeit more expensive to install.

The previous driveway used to get pooling near the garage door because of this I asked them to install the ACO drain. There must have been a slight pitch towards the garage and after that more of a pitch off the driveway hence better run off. The run off is okay until we get halfway down the driveway. Dips and humps have screwed it. They should have pitched the top half of the driveway towards the ACO and bottom half towards the road.

I still think it can fixed but would need a dig up towards the bottom half. This heating the tarmac near the bottom of the pool is not going to work as they will find out.

 

[RockLobster]

How much!!!!!!!!!!! Yikes!!!

There is a big area on the side and back of the garage which they’ve done a good job so this photo is not a true reflection.

To give you an idea resin would have cost £12k - another company.

 

[j.col]

There is a big area on the side and back of the garage which they’ve done a good job so this photo is not a true reflection.

To give you an idea resin would have cost £12k - another company.

Resin is a lot more expensive though. Even more expensive than most block paving.
I have to agree, it could be better but i have seen a lot worse.
You will always get some very small puddles on freshly laid tarmac, but i have to agree the larger ones are a concern.

They were limited in how much of a slope they had to work with, going by your pic, the garage door is 2 courses below damp course, while at the end of the house its 2.5 to 3 courses below.
So that's about a maximum of 75mm over at a guess 5m from garage to footpath, which is not good enough imo over that distance, it is do-able but the tarmac would have to be laid perfectly to avoid puddles.
Recommended is 1:60, which means 60mm fall per 1m, you have about 15mm per 1m.

After a shower, how long does the puddle last? if it disappears fairly quickly, i would be trying to get some money knocked off the total amount.
If it sits for a while. its up to you how you proceed.

Also be wary of an old trick of the trade, they may try this, a squirt of washing up liquid into a small puddle can make it disappear lol.

edit. also by the way, its usual these days to not have water flowing on to the footpath from your driveway,
I know that if an existing driveway was already there, its not mandatory to stop the water flowing out on to the footpath, but most of the better tradesmen these days install Aco drains along the boundry with the footpath.

 

[Mysterae_]

That's a lot of money - did they rip out all the old tarmac? They wouldn't even have needed to do any groundworks such as hardcore and whacking down as it would/should have been done before.

Do you have any similar images of the old tarmac driveway being water pool free?

 

[tlrBeta]

He has already agreed the price, he can't do anything now...its done

Pooling looks odd, I would push for it to be fixed and run off - use any excuse you can to get them onside

 

[RockLobster]

After a shower, how long does the puddle last? if it disappears fairly quickly, i would be trying to get some money knocked off the total amount.
If it sits for a while. its up to you how you proceed.

Also be wary of an old trick of the trade, they may try this, a squirt of washing up liquid into a small puddle can make it disappear lol.

edit. also by the way, its usual these days to not have water flowing on to the footpath from your driveway,
I know that if an existing driveway was already there, its not mandatory to stop the water flowing out on to the footpath, but most of the better tradesmen these days install Aco drains along the boundry with the footpath.

Tuesday morning around 7.30am it stopped raining. It evaporated by 11am, in the winter it could take all day or even longer. I did ask them to install ACO drains by the garage so I'm surprised they didn't use that to their advantage and pitch some of the drive towards that.

That's a lot of money - did they rip out all the old tarmac? They wouldn't even have needed to do any groundworks such as hardcore and whacking down as it would/should have been done before.

Do you have any similar images of the old tarmac driveway being water pool free?

I did check on my CCTV. I do have a video and it gives you idea. The water did pool near the garage door hence me asking for an ACO drain. Everywhere else was fine.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Even with a perfectly level area, if you park in the same place enough you'll end up with tyre dips where the wheels are sat. That's acceptable after 5+ years imo, but having areas like this from day 1?

No thanks.

 

[RockLobster]

I received this email requesting payment.

I want to follow up with an email to confirm the issues and my expectations. Have I missed anything?

Hi XXXXX

Thank you for your visit yesterday. As discussed, there are two outstanding issues with the driveway which need to be rectified. One damaged block and issues with pooling on the driveway. As we agreed the damaged block will be replaced and the areas of water pooling will be rectified.

Our expectation is that after your fixes there should be no water pooling on the driveway.

Regards