petrol stations price discussion (was ‘chaos’)

[Zeeflyboy]

Well after driving like a granny and stretching out my fuel as long as I could, I was finally running off the buffers… passed nothing but empty stations all week on the way to/from work.

Thankfully got a tip this morning from a friend for somewhere with diesel and didn’t even have a queue there (probably because there was no petrol!).

Wife also managed to get some petrol at the local this afternoon, though they were asking to limit to £30 there.

Perhaps things are slowly returning to some semblance of sanity!

 

[MissChief]

The WTD for drivers is a different set of rules. We can reduce the 11 hours rest to 9 hours 3 times a week, or every shift if we take an unbroken 3 hour break during our shift.

Breaks and POA(periods of availability) do not count towards the Working Time Directive, hence you can legally be on duty for 90 hours in one week even though the maximum "working time" is 60 hours under WTD regs with a 48 hour weekly average taken over 26 weeks.

Forgot to add, night workers should be limited to 10 hours duty time, but every site can have a workers agreement to opt out so you can work normal hours.

Don't know a single site that doesn't opt out

It's like some places of work basically tell you to sign your WTD rights away as part of the induction or they won't hire you.

 

[HangTime]

Short thousands of HGV drivers

not short that many ADR tanker drivers

iirc Hoyer one of the biggest operators has about 20 vacancies

bear in mind that 20 tanker drivers could potentially be delivering upwards of 1.5 million litres of fuel a day that’s a lot of fills

Yeah I think the immediate reaction of "oh 150-200 drivers that won't make a dent in it" isn't thought through that well. If they can genuinely get 150 drivers fully operational to the normal standard it will make a difference, given:
-There has been a shortage of drivers for a long time and it has only recently reached tipping point where the pumps are frequently running dry. Ergo, a bit of extra capacity will bring us back up to the levels required to maintain supply, even if it still represents a shortage
-The elevated demand levels can't continue forever because people generally aren't going to be using more fuel than before. They will run with more in their tanks, they will stockpile some in jerry cans etc but that capacity isn't going to keep expanding forever
-Tankers hold a lot of fuel and hence will be delivering a lot of fuel
-There is supposedly no shortage of fuel at refineries/distros
-It sounds like the problems are mostly concentrated around London and the South East, so the extra drivers can be concentrated in a relatively small area.

 

[MissChief]

Regarding your point about tankers holding a lot of fuel, even a smallish four or six pump station probably has a tank capacity of at least 20,000 litres for unleaded, diesel and any high octane they have available but stations this small are rare. A decently sized station might have three or four tanks for each fuel so anything from 60-80,000 litres. A fuel tanker would normally carry a split load of petrol and diesel with up to 10,000 litres of each. For a ‘dry’ station to fill its tanks back up would take a dozen or more tanker visits without even any fuel being drawn by customers. It will take weeks if not a month or more to get some stations back to ‘normal’ although many stations wouldn’t normally run at full tanks for various reasons it’s true. A large, 12+ pump station could conceivably have 100,000 litres of tank space for each fuel plus one or two for Super if they sell it. Somewhere like the new Cobham services on the M25 with 36 pumps could have 200,000 litres or more per fuel.

Sorry for the DM link but apparently it has 1.2m litres of tank capacity although it doesn’t state a mix. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ins-biggest-petrol-station-open-business.html

 

[BongoHunter]

Walked to two stations today with a jerry can (cars to empty to risk a drive to a potentially empty station) - still couldn't get any

 

[Rroff]

Walked to two stations today with a jerry can (cars to empty to risk a drive to a potentially empty station) - still couldn't get any

Lot of places close early on a Sunday as well - one of our drivers returned with the fuel computer unable to actually calculate how much was left because the only open garages had no diesel left (and they aren't allowed to use pay at pump with the fuel card so couldn't use the one place which had fuel but was pay at pump only on a Sunday).

They are probably going to have to fill a can to refuel the van it in the morning enough to make it to a garage rather than risk it - assuming it is available in the morning. We aren't allowed to syphon for health and safety reasons.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Army delivered petrol to my local tescos. So thats sorted now.

 

[Gixer]

Walked to two stations today with a jerry can (cars to empty to risk a drive to a potentially empty station) - still couldn't get any

Sorry to hear you failed to get any fuel. I've been lucky, I cycle to work so no need for fuel. Yesterday took a family trip to feed the ducks. Popped into tesco @ Burseldon around 10am. Drove straight to a pump and filled up. There were only cars at half the pumps and all pumps were working.

On the flip side on leaving Bishops Waltham closer to lunchtime there was a long queue to get into the local petrol station there. Had those drivers driven to the texaco garage between Botley and Hedge end, which I passed on the way home, they'd have had zero queue.

Can't be many more days until things are back to normal I guess now?

 

[dr_volki]

took 6-7 petrol stations to find one that had petrol. no spending limit so brimmed it as much as i could. happy days.

the old chap in front of me filled up 10L of diesel

 

[jpaul]

forecourt prices might drop once the shortage is over, even if brent is climbing, so, maybe he was a savvy investor.

This is one of the few situations where it appears facebook membership might be useful, to avoid wasted journeys.

 

[Slam62]

Hmm the south east is short of tanker drivers, the cost of living is high in the south east.

 

[lordrobs]

I'm stubbornly sticking to my usual buying pattern which means I haven't filled up yet since the "crisis" started.

My dad called me to say there was fuel and zero queue at a local BP last nigh but I refused to make a pointless trip out just to buy fuel. Sainsburys had fuel with minimal queue this morning but I've still got 1/3 of a tank so I thought I'll leave it until tomorrow which should mean I can do my midweek work trip out and back without having to fill up...

...this will of course come back to bite me when tomorrow is back to mile long queue chaos

From what I’ve read only a small amount of Army drivers have the relevant training to safely deliver fuel, around 20%. It’s a drop in the ocean.

Don't forget this whole "crisis" only came about because a dozen or so stations across the whole of the country run dry.

They just need to get the ripple in the demand ironed out in the short term. There is obviously a longer term issue though on the HGV driver issue in general that will need to be addressed.

 

[watercooledman]

back to empty around here again too.

 

[MR_Punk]

The 9 hour rest period is supposed to be for drivers who sleep overnight in the vehicle, unfortunately, it still applies for drivers doing day shifts i.e. in that 9 hour period you travel back home , do your evening routine, tea, bath, walk the dog etc etc sleep and be expected back on duty 9 hours later, you can legally do this 3 times on the bounce ie 15hrs on, 9 off….

The driver hours are supposed to be limits but the industry treats them as targets and you are frequently planned to do maximum hours.

Makes a complete mockery of road safety….

This is what annoys me about a lot of companies who use drivers to this extent. All drivers should be subject 48 hours per week over a reference period which is incredibly hard to keep to if your doing 3 15's a week. Some companies just ignore this.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I'm stubbornly sticking to my usual buying pattern which means I haven't filled up yet since the "crisis" started.

My dad called me to say there was fuel and zero queue at a local BP last nigh but I refused to make a pointless trip out just to buy fuel. Sainsburys had fuel with minimal queue this morning but I've still got 1/3 of a tank so I thought I'll leave it until tomorrow which should mean I can do my midweek work trip out and back without having to fill up...

...this will of course come back to bite me when tomorrow is back to mile long queue chaos

Haha me too, I went to do my weekly shop on Friday night and at Sainsbury's there were cars at the pumps with 1 car in a queue and all pumps working. I didn't bother as I still had over half a tank. I probably don't need to go to fill up until the start of next week.

 

[Rroff]

forecourt prices might drop once the shortage is over, even if brent is climbing, so, maybe he was a savvy investor.

This is one of the few situations where it appears facebook membership might be useful, to avoid wasted journeys.

Cost me an extra £2.28 on an almost full tank on my pickup - but worth it to be able to hopefully ignore the disruption for another week or so.

Could have been worse - the amount some places have put it up would push it to an extra £7+.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Are you guys still struggling to get fuel in the South east?
All 3 petrol stations where I live had fuel this weekend.

 

[Hades]

Are you guys still struggling to get fuel in the South east?
All 3 petrol stations where I live had fuel this weekend.

I don't need it at the moment but most of the petrol stations near me (Surrey, just inside the M25) have covers over the pumps when I drive past.

 

[Scania]

Just completing my regular Wakefield, Leeds & Bradford Monday route, noticeably different to last Monday, whilst I could see fuel pumps still out of use, I didn’t see anything that resembled the queues of last Monday.

Well done northerners.

 

[dlockers]

I don't need it at the moment but most of the petrol stations near me (Surrey, just inside the M25) have covers over the pumps when I drive past.

I pulled in smug as anything the other day to my local Shell, only to casually continue driving through and out the exit as all the pumps had covers