Do we know what the base (non-turbo clocks) of 8 core Alder Lake CPUs will be?

g67575 · 9 Oct 2021 at 09:15

This could be important for people to know as presumably, Alder Lake CPUs will run at safe / moderate temperatures at the base clock, even with a low end stock cooler, or equivalent (or in laptops).

If they can run them at a base clock of 4.0ghz, you'd expect them to still be about as fast as Rocket lake /Comet lake CPUs running at 5.0ghz, based on current CPU benchmarks like CPUz. It looks like much of the speed boost, will be from boosting the L3 cache up to 30MB.

With Rocket lake though, the 11700k base clock was just 3.6ghz, so lower than the base clock of the 10700K (3.8ghz).

marms · 9 Oct 2021 at 10:04

I've seen 3.2ghz for 12900k and 3.6ghz for 12700k at 125w so they're going to be hot chips.

g67575 · 9 Oct 2021 at 10:55

Lol, I don't get it, why is the base clock of the top product often lower? Is it because of the extra L3 cache?

If the base clock is lower than 3.8ghz for 8 core CPUs, thats kind of a regression.

marms · 9 Oct 2021 at 11:17

The 12900k has 8 big and 8 small cores, the 12700k has 8 big and 4 small cores.

g67575 · 9 Oct 2021 at 12:27

The 12900K doesn't look too appealing to me. Maybe if you could fix all 16 cores at 4.0ghz, with a low power consumption, it would seem more worthwhile.

I wonder if there will be much performance difference between the larger and smaller cores, or is clock speed the only significant difference?

I know hyperthreading is disabled on the small cores.

g67575 · 9 Oct 2021 at 12:36

It's just occurred to me that the smaller cores could just be disabled in the BIOS, for 8 core Alder Lake CPUs. Or, Intel could release a version without small cores active - maybe they could set the base clock higher in this case.

jigger · 9 Oct 2021 at 13:16

g67575 said:
It's just occurred to me that the smaller cores could just be disabled in the BIOS, for 8 core Alder Lake CPUs. Or, Intel could release a version without small cores active - maybe they could set the base clock higher in this case.

Intel have a 10 big core chip.

g67575 · 9 Oct 2021 at 13:24

Do you mean the 10900k? Released in Q2 2020 and based on Intel's 14nm fab process. It's not gonna be looking so great by next year.

jigger · 9 Oct 2021 at 13:37

What you’re describing is what Intel already have.

humbug · 9 Oct 2021 at 14:08

g67575 said:
Lol, I don't get it, why is the base clock of the top product often lower? Is it because of the extra L3 cache?

If the base clock is lower than 3.8ghz for 8 core CPUs, thats kind of a regression.

Intel measure their TDP from the base clock, so for the 11700K its 95 Watts at 3.6Ghz, its a marketing thing.

They actually run at 5Ghz with 200 Watts but they only guarantee 3.6Ghz so the TDP they put on the box is 95 Watts.

So the base clock and TDP on Intel chips is utterly irrelevant. but it can indicate the real power consumption of the chip, so if the 12900K is 125 Watts at 3.2Ghz at 5Ghz it could very well be 250 Watts, i have seen that and even higher quoted.

jigger · 9 Oct 2021 at 15:53

It’s the small cores where the magic happens. The big cores are pretty much desktop back ports to the laptop process/unconstrained laptop chip on the desktop, depending on how you look at them.

Think, 2x high performance quad core 1065G7 chips (golden cove) supported by 2x low power quad core (gracemount) Atom chips.

Golden Gracemount Cove.

4K8KW10 · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:04

g67575 said:
This could be important for people to know as presumably, Alder Lake CPUs will run at safe / moderate temperatures at the base clock, even with a low end stock cooler, or equivalent (or in laptops).

If they can run them at a base clock of 4.0ghz, you'd expect them to still be about as fast as Rocket lake /Comet lake CPUs running at 5.0ghz, based on current CPU benchmarks like CPUz. It looks like much of the speed boost, will be from boosting the L3 cache up to 30MB.

With Rocket lake though, the 11700k base clock was just 3.6ghz, so lower than the base clock of the 10700K (3.8ghz).

You definitely need decent cooling solutions. You don't spend thousands on a new configuration and then suddenly ask for a small cooler.

The Arctic Freezer 34 eSports DUO is rated up to 200W, so that 125-watt Alder Lake should not be a problem for it.
With Freezer 34 eSports DUO | Tower CPU Cooler with Push-Pull Configuration | ARCTIC "Tower CPU Cooler with BioniX P-Series Fans in Push-Pull-Configuration"

jigger said:
It’s the small cores where the magic happens. The big cores are pretty much desktop back ports to the laptop process/unconstrained laptop chip on the desktop, depending on how you look at them.

Think, 2x high performance quad core 1065G7 chips (golden cove) supported by 2x low power quad core (gracemount) Atom chips.

Golden Gracemount Cove.

The "Atom" cores are now very fast. They are technically no longer "Atom" cores.

g67575 · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:11

Surely, Intel's stock coolers would be enough to run Alder Lake CPUs at base clocks though?

Intel are testing some new stock coolers with Alder Lake apparently:
https://www.techspot.com/news/91202-intel-experimenting-new-stock-cooler-designs-alder-lake.html

This matters to Intel, because AMD bundles sufficient cooling with CPUs like the 5600X.

Although, cooling 8 core CPUs at higher clocks still seems to be a challenge...

I don't think Alder Lake builds will cost thousands, more like £400-£500 pounds (excluding the 12900K) if you have DDR4 RAM already, although people might have to wait for a DDR4 compatible motherboard.

4K8KW10 · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:17

I wouldn't trust that stock cooler. It looks so weak, like for chips that are 45W or something.

jigger · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:21

g67575 said:
Surely, Intel's stock coolers would be enough to run Alder Lake CPUs at base clocks though?

They are testing some new stock coolers with Alder Lake apparently:
https://www.techspot.com/news/91202-intel-experimenting-new-stock-cooler-designs-alder-lake.html

Intel have a very high cooling requirement. Forget Intel’s power rating it’s literally just a random number printed on the box.

Just about ever Intel stock HSF I’ve used has been little more than E waste Intel CBA dealing with. I would actually pay more not to throw the things away.

I used to consider the Artic 13 the stock Intel HSF. It could just about deal with a mild OC at a reasonable sound level.

jigger · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:26

g67575 said:
I don't think Alder Lake builds will cost thousands, more like £400-£500 pounds (excluding the 12900K) if you have DDR4 RAM already, although people might have to wait for a DDR4 compatible motherboard.

Depends I suppose. Z690 will be a big chunk of that budget. Way over that for DDR5 boards if the recent listings are correct.

g67575 · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:27

Anyone ever tried a stock cooler + intel CPU at base clocks? And if so, how did it work out?

My super old hyper evo 212 can cope with a 10700KF at 4.6-4.7ghz still, although it runs quite hot. I don't suppose the stock coolers will be as good as that though.

jigger · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:31

g67575 said:
Anyone ever tried a stock cooler + intel CPU at base clocks? And if so, how did it work out?

Scalding hot, unable to cope. Not fit for purposes.

Buy an OEM chip.

Stock Intel HSF here,

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/arct...MI1bHFldS98wIVwQIGAB0mbAANEAQYASABEgIOfPD_BwE

g67575 · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:35

Seems pretty slack, they could at least throw in a good cooler for the premium priced 12900K.

I wonder if the budget board chipset will be called 'B660'?

Buying OEM is a good tip, if you can get hold of one.

jigger · 9 Oct 2021 at 16:45

Maybe Intel will have a better HSF this time. The problem is Intel sometimes believe their own marketing nonsense. If they ship 95watt capable coolers they will suck. They need to be at least 50% over that from my experience.

Looking at the pricing so far, I’d probably just go all out and spend the extra £150 or whatever for a full custom loop and a proper Intel block.