Pergol.a standalone - planning permission / permitted development

Soldato
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haha, so previously twilight took pics of the catio and complained to the council, they didn't even come around and just sent a threatogram enforcement e-mail to take it down 28 days,
he would have taken detailed pics for them to tell me I cant have through bolts into the wall and grounds (well they said in the manner I have attached it to the house) :cry: there were other little issues too which I sorted out

that issue is sorted so I am a little cautious on this one
 
Soldato
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Says here there's no charge for making an appeal if it comes to that.

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-householder-planning-decision

I would put the application in before building it as the neighbour will only be able to imagine the look from the drawings & site plan. It also states in the info linked above that an appeal can't be commented on by interested parties, so it seems he'll only be able to object during the application phase.
 
Soldato
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so i just spoke with the person at the council

I can go with either PP or retro PP, they cant chose for me they said, same procedure, same costs and same time scales, so it's a no brainer tbh
 
Soldato
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Says here there's no charge for making an appeal if it comes to that.

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-householder-planning-decision

I would put the application in before building it as the neighbour will only be able to imagine the look from the drawings & site plan. It also states in the info linked above that an appeal can't be commented on by interested parties, so it seems he'll only be able to object during the application phase.

i like your thinking there, it will take 8 - 13 weeks for them to let me know if I can have it up or not (probs into next year)

if i put it up I can use it at least in that time even if it's short lived haha, hmm
 
Soldato
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i like your thinking there, it will take 8 - 13 weeks for them to let me know if I can have it up or not (probs into next year)

if i put it up I can use it at least in that time even if it's short lived haha, hmm

I actually meant apply for PP first as it draws less attention to it in terms of your neighbour who would undoubtedly get wind of your plans if you build it first.

How does the land area compare? If you add the area of your existing extensions and garden buildings to the area of the pergola does it equal 50% or less of the original garden area before existing extensions were built?
 
Soldato
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i have a front / side and rear garden area, all extensions / buildings will be less than 50% (including this)

I get the above, what I am thinking though, is if put an planning application in before building it, let's say tomorrow, then I will need to wait till Dec / Jan to know if I can build it and put it up

If I build it now and then get retrospective permission, it's already in place and in use whilst they go through the retrospective application which will take till Dec / Jan for a decision

or is that not how it works?

the plans I will submit either method will be the same, chap at council said there are a few things they will look at:

the impact to the neighbour
impact of the area
policies
character of the area
location
so i'll deffo need to bring it down to fence level and make sure you cant see it from the front road

there is the fence level (6 foot) and 1 foot trellis - so 7 foot in total between said neighbour, i probably need to bring it to the 6 foot to be safer i reckon

6 foot - 1.829m
7 foot - 2.134m
height of this unit without any mods is 2.3m

size matters but I guess ~20cm is not the end of the world :o
 
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Soldato
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I guess it boils down to how urgently you need to make use of it. Once it's built it makes it easier for the neighbour to take photos to support any objections he has.

The alternative would be to sit on the application and build until the spring and at least get the use of it for the best part of the year.

Either way I'd stick with the original height to start with, if the project fails you can still offload an unmodified pergola probably for a bit more than you paid to recoup some of the PP cost.
 
Soldato
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I do think height will be issue here and if I submit it over fence level it will likely be declined

I know that was an issue with the catio, enforcement in their threatograms said no amount of alterations to the catio will allow it to stay and and that I can submit a retrospective but it's unlikely they will support such an application for that structure

...but moving it 3 feet back (closer to the neighbour) fit into PD and was fine lol

The pergola is not far from where the catio initially was, but it will be exactly behind the extension so not in direct view of the road, the catio was ~3m away from behind the extension initially, I'll draw something in paint later to make it clearer
 
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Most planning departments don't understand the planning rules so be prepared for fun! I had long running battle with them over the decking I built. Swines told me I needed planning permission as it was too tall, the joys of living on a sloped garden meant the low end was below ground level but the far end was on 3m posts.
I'd done lots of research into it so took it to appeal and won.

Have permitted development rules been superseded in your area? Our local council has a whole raft of documents on their portal about rule differences that apply in certain areas. Typically Pergolas do not require planning as they're temporary structures so there should be published documentation from the council to state what's permitted in the area.
 
Soldato
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i have a front / side and rear garden area, all extensions / buildings will be less than 50% (including this)

I get the above, what I am thinking though, is if put an planning application in before building it, let's say tomorrow, then I will need to wait till Dec / Jan to know if I can build it and put it up

If I build it now and then get retrospective permission, it's already in place and in use whilst they go through the retrospective application which will take till Dec / Jan for a decision

or is that not how it works?

the plans I will submit either method will be the same, chap at council said there are a few things they will look at:

the impact to the neighbour
impact of the area
policies
character of the area
location
so i'll deffo need to bring it down to fence level and make sure you cant see it from the front road

there is the fence level (6 foot) and 1 foot trellis - so 7 foot in total between said neighbour, i probably need to bring it to the 6 foot to be safer i reckon

6 foot - 1.829m
7 foot - 2.134m
height of this unit without any mods is 2.3m

size matters but I guess ~20cm is not the end of the world :o

You're normally allowed 2.5m for a flat roofed pergola though. I don't see how he can argue that it would be impacting him because it's a few centimetres above the boundary fence. e.g. he'd have a hard job to prove it was blocking any additional light that the fence wasn't already. If he were to argue about seeing the top of it then the same would be true if he were looking out of a 1st floor window. If it were a pitched roof pergola it could be up to 4m tall. I think it's more likely to be an issue if it were noticeable from the front of the property but can't you screen that side with some trees?
 
Soldato
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art.jpg

hope this paints the picture lol
 
Soldato
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A practical guide to living within a Conservation Area for householders

(cant find something similar for Manchester but this good info nevertheless)

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj6_e7vmcjzAhWFUMAKHYHlBAoQFnoECAIQAQ&url=https://www.york.gov.uk/downloads/file/792/guide-to-living-in-a-conservation-area&usg=AOvVaw2Bzlg5tTX52LNgUEmYwkhd


2.3 Planning Permission Planning permission is required where ‘development’ takes place. This is mostly for new buildings or extensions but sometimes changing the use of a building can be classed as development. If you plan to undertake work to your property which requires planning permission, the impact of the proposals on the special architectural and historic character of that area will be taken into consideration. In most cases, the council will seek advice from its own conservation staff. The application may also be considered by the Conservation Area Advisory Panel, an independent body made up of members of local and national amenity societies and interest groups. The proposal will also be advertised more widely than usual with adverts placed in the local paper and a site notice placed outside the property. There is no additional cost to an applicant for these adverts.

The main way in which the character of a conservation area is maintained is through the control of development. In the majority of cases, proposals are acceptable in principle and conservation area controls only affect the design and form of the development. For example, an extension or new outbuilding is generally acceptable if it is subservient in scale and design to the main house and built of materials that match or are sympathetic to the house and conservation area.

Larger schemes such as new housing developments are more complicated. Design, density and setting are all major issues that come into play. In such cases, ‘outline’ planning applications, where only the principle of development is sought, are considered inadequate due to the lack of detail they contain.

Good design is crucial to maintaining the character of a conservation area. Most proposals employ styles and materials typical of the area and are generally traditional or historic in influence. Modern designs and approaches are not automatically ruled out and, in fact, a good contemporary design that respects the character of an area can enhance a conservation area by adding to the evolution of a place.

The success of any design relies on a good understanding of local style and materials and this is one of the main factors that a conservation officer will consider when looking at an application. Conservation officers may ask for modifications to a scheme if they feel that certain elements are untypical or out of context. If they feel the application fails to respect the character of the conservation area to the degree that even modifications would make little difference then they may have to advise that the application is refused.

Some buildings and locations will be seen as more sensitive or important than others. This sensitivity will affect the way an application is viewed and decided. Listed buildings will always be viewed as making a major contribution to a conservation area.

Historic unlisted buildings will be seen as more sensitive than a modern house. The sensitivity of a location for new development relies on several issues.

Firstly, how visible a location is from public spaces such as roadsides, footpaths, parks and village greens. For example the front elevation of a house that overlooks a village green will be seen as more sensitive than the rear elevation of the same house which can only be viewed from a distant approach road. Secondly various parts of a conservation area will been seen as having more special interest than others. For example a main road made up of 18th and 19th century houses and shops will be seen as more sensitive than a back street of mixed 19th and 20th century housing. The contribution of open spaces and views in to and out of the conservation area must also be taken into account in any assessment. When the council approves a planning proposal it will often attach certain conditions. These conditions may range from the type of bricks and how they are laid, to detailing of windows and doors.

sounds like a load of bs but interesting info.

Cant believe they say this requires planning permission :rolleyes:


maybe I should get brick vinyl wrap to make it in character wrapping the frame haha

Zfv28sO.jpg
 
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Soldato
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Presumably you can already see the side of the existing extension so maybe that sets a precedence. It's a long way back from the front boundary and partly hidden by the existing extension from the full on front elevation so I'd be surprised if they didn't pass it.
 
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